Everyday Cornerstone

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Welcome to everyday Cornerstone.

This is a new series of podcasts.

That we've, that we've been working on where we've been trying to answer some of the questions that came out of our time together looking at the book of Romans during media fast, and we've produced 2 of these already where we've dealt with some big questions about god's sovereignty and salvation.

The the the the role of Israel today.

And, historically, when you and lots of other things there as well you can tune into.

And, today, we're gonna be doing I think this is our last 1, and we're gonna be doing some questions from Romans 13.

I'm here with Ben.

Hello? And Pete.

Hello? And we're pastors at Cornerstone Church, and you can find it on our website cornerstoneschurchkingston.

org, lots of other, resources as ever.

So Should we start with a couple of the questions? Yes.

Here is a question from Romans chapter 13, that someone from our congregation asked following our media fast.

They say, is it wrong to participate in protests, and they've given an example at protests march? Or demonstration, against our ruling authorities.

So is it wrong to participate in the protests of any kind against our ruling authority for the submit? Another question was, what do we do when we're asked to participate in activities that would kind of contradict or conflict with god's commandments, and they've given the example if we're asked to participate in, support of same sex marriage as an example.

So those are the main questions.

There's also a question if we can have time to get to it.

What does it mean that the hour has come for people to wake up? Those were were our questions, in regards to the Romans 13.

Well, maybe just a just a minute or 2 on on the context of Romans 13.

So at at the end of Romans 11, Paul has broken out into praise about god's wondrous gospel plan.

And then in chapter 12, he said in light of god's mercy, I appeal to you, you know, to offer your bodies as living identifies is.

And, he he's kind of exploring the difference that the gospel makes to our lives, and it's radical.

It changes everything.

And, he's in talking about how that distinctive Christian life works itself out in the church.

You know, we are a body of believers.

We've been given gifts, and so we're to be radical in terms of our love to 1 another in the church, but we're also to be radical in the way in which we love our enemies.

So it's not just loving the church.

It's loving outsiders, people who might persecute us this agree with us.

We can, not just love those who are like us, but love our enemies because of the the wonderful gospel that we've got.

And in Romans 13, he's carrying on argument.

So he's showing what difference the gospel makes to our lives and how distinctive it makes us.

And, there he's talking about we can be distinctive in the world in our submission to god's god's authorities.

So that's a bit of an introduction to it.

And very, very important because we're talking about love, really, being the foundation for how we live our lives as you as you've just said.

And so you you as when it comes to governments, let's let's be careful.

We're not just demanding our rights and stamping on other people's rights in order to make our life comfortable.

So, yeah, that's that's really important.

Well, it it says here in Romans 13, everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities for there is no authority except that witch god.

Has established the authorities, that exist have been established by god.

Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what god has instituted, and those who do so will be, bring judgment on themselves for rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong, do you, do, do, do, sorry, for those who do wrong, They hold terror for those who do wrong.

I mean, let let you know, there's 2 sides we can talk about here, but the first side is you gotta take authority seriously.

We're not anarchists.

And he's not calling for Christians to be, rebellious against, governments so that you've got this, Christian organization that's almost a political group that he's campaigning, always a pain in the neck for authorities, always, trying to upset the boat uh-uh, always demanding their own rights.

That is not how we're to act in the world, and that's very important stuff to remember, isn't it? Because I think if he imagine if he called for rebellion against, against authorities you've got a very different Christianity.

We would then be, taken up, I think, with political things and rebelling against authority rather than the main job is to love the world by preaching the gospel of love, the lord Jesus Christ to the world.

And there would be then you know, this thing going on where, no, I'm doing god's work by smashing down some government.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we would tend to think of being radical as rebelling against authorities.

That's what a radical person is, but he's trying to say that a gospel radical is actually radical in terms of your submission to authorities.

And what god has established.

And that's clearly what he's saying that the way in which god, governs is by setting up these authorities who rule you know, on his behalf, really, and what they are to do is to govern a country and govern a people and particularly to uphold what is true and good and just and to punish what is evil and unjust.

That's the job that, they've that they're given and and, you know, that's that will look slightly different in different countries because there's different systems that people have and and whatever.

But here, you know, it's our it's our government, isn't it? They make the rules and and we're submit to the we're to submit to them as agents of the lords.

You know? So, when we break the laws of the lands, you know, We're not just sort of, you know, sticking it to Boris or the tories or whatever.

We're actually resisting god's authority.

We we are resisting god's authority because those are people that he's established to, to govern the country.

And, you know, that's why Christians have always taken submission to the law seriously.

For that reason, and and the other thing we we were talking about this before is that, you know, we we are to submit to the authorities that are there, not just the ones that we would like to be there.

So it's not that we we have a political party that we feel aligned to, and we we submit to what they wanna do.

We submit to the ones that are Chili in authority, the ones who actually have been given the charge over the land, not just the ones we would like to be there.

So that's quite a radical call because that means you know, we we really take seriously.

We want to take serious seriously things like tax returns and, you know, we we we we don't wanna fiddle the numbers, even if we could and get away with it, you know, we wanna say, actually, no, because this is part of my relationship to the lord.

These are his authority.

So if I muck around I'm really resisting him, you know, and I don't wanna do that.

So, yeah, that's that's part of it, isn't it? Yeah.

And and we're told that they've been established by god for our good.

And he he gives a qualification for for what kind of, rulers he has established, rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.

So, if we aren't be if we're not terrified of our government, which we aren't in this country, well, maybe some people are.

In fact, I Well, terrified in the sense that your life is being threatened.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not terrified that you don't like them, and they're making decisions that you don't like.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Then then they are put put, there by god.

And as you're saying, Tom, it's not what's more than it's not that god has put a political party in power, but but god has given us a structure of government.

That is the authority.

So you you don't obey the labor government, because they're the labor government, you obey them when they're empowered because they're empowered.

The it's the office of prime minister and the cabinet and the government.

That is the authority god has instituted and who fills that changes, but our allegiance is to the the structure of authority rather than to a political party.

And that's why if you're a Tory, you should obey the law when labors in or whoever else and vice versa.

Because and, you know, we've gotta think of the alternatives of that.

You know, if every if it's all men, every man for himself, every woman for themselves, it's anarchy.

And anarchy is not a good place to live ever.

There's no anywhere where there's been anarchy where it's been, safe, prosperous, a good to live.

It's a bit like the purge, isn't it? I mean, I've never seen those films, but, you know, there's a day isn't there in the films where there is no law.

You can do anything you like.

That is not a pleasant place, I I guess, in those films to to live in.

No.

Yeah.

That's right.

And, So anarchy sounds good, doesn't it? I mean, I love the Bistals song, anarchy in the UK.

I wanna be, you know, anarchy.

I mean, it was great.

And, you know, they're sort of crying out against the government.

It it feels very useful.

You know? God saved the queen.

And the fascist regime, you know, all of those sort of songs are like Anthhens and they they feel good, but to live in anarchy.

Is is is to mean that I can drive on the road any any any speed I like.

Yeah.

And I'm not gonna obey a Zebra crossing or any other red light.

And if you're in my way, I I'll run you down.

It doesn't matter.

It's a disaster, isn't it? Yeah.

So and god isn't an anarchist.

And he he he gives us rulers and laws.

He is a god of rulers and laws because they are actually good to live by.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's right.

And, And and so this, you know, this is partly, and with all of these questions, and we will discuss, like, the exceptions in in just a moment or not exceptions, but the qualifications, but You know, with all of this, we we have to sort of, you know, be radical in seeing what it is saying.

And not just going straight to what it what it isn't saying.

And so there's no use saying, oh, yes.

Well, he says this, but what about those who live under a dictator? You know, if we're downloading all our music illegally and we're we're watching, you know, live sport illegally, well, before we think about what the dictator's doing wrong and how to, you know, we should think about our, we should say.

Yeah.

Well, hold on.

Like, you know, there's no use thing about these that I need to get my own heart in line him because I should I should deal with myself first, you know, not not just think think of other So, this is a this is a this is a radical thing, isn't it? Yeah.

So pay your taxes.

Someone's got to fill in the holes in the road.

I know.

Seems like they don't, but, you know, someone's gotta look after the roads.

Someone's gotta look after where the rubbish goes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So so that so that's that's, you know, something of what it is saying.

I mean, these these questions are kind of to address some of the maybe the limits to this, don't they? You know, when when do we disobey? Should we ever disobey? Can we be involved in activities, which seem to be, you know, disagreeing.

And, you know, when it comes to the protest, Quest you know, of course, in this country, not everywhere.

So in places like Belarus, you can't you can't really protest, but in in, you know, in our but there isn't there is a law that allows peaceful protests.

So, of course, because it's actually written within our laws that we can protest peacefully against things.

And so that's not wrong if there's a particular policy or a direction the government are taking.

We live in a democracy.

We have a voice.

We can join with other voices in provided it's done in the right way, we can raise our objections publicly, and try to get things on the government agenda.

I mean, when the when the Belarus stuff was all taking off, you know, a few of us from the church went up to to Central London in order to try to protesting get this on the government's agenda a bit more.

And that's, you know, part of what what what we're allowed to do wonderfully in this in this country.

There is space for a dissenting voice.

And now but but it's how you do that.

I mean, so I think if you look at some of the extinction rebellion protests, particularly, you know, a line is crossed between peaceful protests and actual anarchy and vandalism.

So when you're when you're actually smashing up other people's seeing businesses or covering it in, you know, paints or doing these very rude rude about leaders.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Saying horrible, ugly things, or they should die.

Or Yeah.

You know? Yeah.

That, you know, sort of aggressive language.

That's all wrong, isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you're certainly helping the law by destroying the law.

And you broke up the law of love as well.

Yeah.

I think the protest 1 is is 1 of the 1 of the more straightforward ones.

You know, it's it's, you know, we we are.

This this this doesn't in any way say we can't have a vote, raise our voice, you know, particularly if, we might go on to this.

What what constitutes, sort of an authority that god has put in power for our good and what constitutes an imposter or an authority that is ruling not in the way that god mandates rulers should rule.

Don't know if you were gonna segue into that.

But, you can see here, rulers hold no terror for those who do write.

So that is the definition of a ruler that has been put in power, for our good by god.

So if you're terrified of of doing right, you are under a non biblical ruler, a ruler that Paul is not talking about here when he says submit to the authorities because he he qualifies what that is.

It's someone who you're not terrified under when you do right.

So take someone in Belarus, for example, who are who are terrified just for simply going walking the street or walking the street.

Yeah.

They're terrified for doing right.

And therefore, should that you can you apply this passage, submit to that authority? You can't because the authority is not, the authority that Paul's talking about.

It's going above its station, isn't it? That's what you're saying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Authorities are given a mandate is the language that, we we were using before that we start recording.

Authorities are given a mandate by god.

God is the overall ruler and under him is established rulers with a mandate they are to rule in a particular way.

And if they don't and they terrorize good people or people living right they are no longer, following god's mandate as an as an authority.

So they're rebelling against him And in those instances, we are not called to submit to, there every sort of whim and instruction.

There's a particular type of authority.

Yes.

I I mean, I think that's right.

But even then, we've gotta be a little careful because of what Christ did before pilot.

So I I I think that's right, but there's always, you know, you've just always gotta be careful that we're we're not saying, okay, now we can go and rebel and smash up the communist party or if I'm in Belarus so I can start lobbying stuff at Lukashenko.

That sort of stuff.

But you know, Jesus Jesus is before pilot.

And pilot says to him, don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you? And Jesus says, you would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above.

Therefore, the 1 who handed me over to you is guilty of of a greater sin.

So there's sin going on here.

Pilot is is a weak leader at this point.

Mhmm.

Because in 1 sense, he should have said, this man is innocent, and he he did say that.

And therefore, why would I whip him? And then why would I send him to his death? And yet, Jesus still submitted.

So we've gotta we've gotta keep weighing these things up, haven't we? We don't automatically say evil government, let's go and rebel.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

So we've these things are not easy.

Let's put it that way.

Yeah.

And and and, and we may draw lines slightly differently to other brothers and sisters depending on where they are.

So that that largely don't rebel.

Mhmm.

If you're being told not to preach the gospel Yeah.

We do rebel because that's very clear in the Bible, you know, where Paul, Kara, and John, they denied the authorities and said, you know, who should we obey you or god? So that's very clear.

But then on other issues, it it we've we've got to be careful.

That's really what I'm saying.

Yeah.

That's right.

And, I mean, I think, you know, when Jesus says, give to Caesar what is Caesars and to god what is god.

Yeah.

He recognizes that there are certain things that belong to Caesar, and are within his rights to command, you know, taxes on a, you know, a military, service for instance, what what all kinds of things, whatever they would have been.

And that that it's right if if if he's commanding something that is within his mandate, you should do it and give it to him.

But if Caesar starts commanding things that belong to god for himself, then we don't just have the right, but the duty to deny him that.

Yes.

So if Caesar is saying, there is only 1 son of god, and it's me, you are not to worship the son of god, the Christ.

Then we don't just have the right.

We have the duty not to give to Caesar because he's transgressed his realm, and this is the thing with these authorities, isn't it? That they're not They're not absolute.

They're delegated.

God is the only absolute authority to whom all allegiance and honor is due.

He delegates it for a time to particular people and providing their command within his mandate within their right mandate, you know, taxes road speed limit, whether you can download this or that illegally, you know, they we have a right to give, you know, respectfully what belongs to them.

But if they, as your example, forbid us to preach the gospel or to stop worshiping Christ or, you know, to give up moral clear convictions about like, you know, there's a a a people group that you're not to mix or you to, you know, put in the ghetto or, you know, that sort of stuff.

That's against god's mandate, isn't it? Or there's there's a legalized racism that comes in, like with an Nazi party, you know, no.

No.

That's what you're saying, Ben, is above their station.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's interesting in chapter 9, you see, the example of pharaoh because someone might ask the question, but why why does god institute some good leaders and some bad leaders? Why do we have good authorities some place some places of the world, another place of the world have bad bad authorities, has god made a mistake or someone snuck in without god looking, but in in Romans chapter 9, we see in verse 17 for scripture says to Ferro, I raised you up for this very purpose, but I might display my power in you.

And that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

So here is a illegitimate leader who is enslaving god's people, preventing them from becoming their own people going out to worship god.

And yet, god raised that person up.

So what, you know, we have evil regimes in this world that persecute Christians and prevent people from living freely.

God raised them up, but in order, that his purposes might be accomplished.

And it's interesting Moses literally went to rebel against pharaoh.

Got Moses was sent to rebel against Fero, let my people go, no.

And he he went back.

So go though sometimes in order to accomplish his purposes, God raises up, leaders who we are then to engage with or interact with in a certain way.

Do you see what I'm trying to say? It's hard to explain.

Yeah.

Although Moses did do that in a legitimate way, didn't it? In a legitimate way? He he he actually went and said.

Yes.

Right.

You're you're wrong.

Yep.

Ferro, you need to let my people go.

Yeah.

And, Ferro said no, and he he doing that.

Yeah.

And then got changed the circumstances.

Or the the example of the midwives, you know, you know, you know, when a when a ruler like Ferrer demands that, that children are handed up for slaughter.

Yeah.

You know, the midwives say, no.

Thanks.

You know, we're not doing that.

Yeah.

Are they breaking Romans 13? No.

No.

Because pharaoh is ruling outside his mandate.

He's trying to take things that belong only to god.

God is in god has made them.

They made an image of god.

They deserve protection, you know, as an image bearers and honor.

You can't just sit down systematically slaughter them because you're trying sort of do some population control.

Because there is a greater law then.

Yeah.

There is a.

So it's a greater law, which is to is is the law of love.

Yeah.

Again, and to kill children.

Isn't the law of love? Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's helpful because someone might say someone might apply Romans 13 flatly and say, right.

All authorities So Moses was wrong to rebel against Ferro.

It's it's how some people might say.

Yeah.

They might say it's wrong for people to protest against a a leader that's in charge, flatly, but it's not a flat commandment.

This is it? No.

No.

There's contours to it.

It's within a context.

And if we are to, not submit, to illegitimate authorities, we're to do it in a particular ways as we saw.

Yeah.

And I And I think there will be, like, the the trouble is there will be we we've talked about quite clear examples.

So if we're forbidden to preach the gospel, you know, but you know, if you take what's happened during these whole lockdown measures, it's quite a good illustration in 1 sense because some people would say, well, actually to to forbid the in person gathering god's people is outside of a government's mandate.

They don't have the right to do that because that's god's institution.

That's his church.

Now some people and we would be among them would say, look, if this was a if we were being forbidden forever from ever gathering again, well, we're not gonna do that, but for a limited time, For the sake of public health and along with the nation, we can, as churches have done in history, except for a time, a law like that, and not see it as a total rebellion against god.

Other Christians might take a different line on that.

In 1 sense, that's alright.

But how we treat each other really matters.

So there were some disgraceful examples of on Twitter particularly of how certain Christians were being tweeted, tweeted and treated for for for taking taking a sort of government line on it, and they were being called satanic and instruments, you know, and gonna say it's so bad, isn't it? And it's the opposite of Romans 12, isn't it? It's no law of love there or no? No.

No.

And so there will be slight differences of conscience, wouldn't it? Conscience and, and it's, you know, it's worth bearing that in mind, isn't it, I think, with this? I very, very much so.

Yeah.

Yeah, I can't remember where we are now.

What are the questions? The the other well, perhaps everything to come back to is what you were touching on on earlier, Ben, is this is this idea that they are they are generally Institute by god to uphold what is right and to punish what is wrong.

And so, you know, if you've got honest generally speaking, honest law abiding citizens who are terrified of their authorities because what is good is no longer upheld as good in the land, but seem to be something that's punished, then then something has gone very wrong with that authority.

And at that point, they've they've clearly gone outside what god intended them to do.

And so, again, we have not just the right, but the duty to not to not listen, you know, to not do that, but to to uphold what god considers to be right and just and, you know, and and true.

You know, so if you take the racism example, if we're being told that, you know, if a black person comes into your shop, you should charge them more or something.

You you you know, it's that means that a certain group of the population are terrified just doing what is right, just going shopping and trying provide for their families.

They're terrified that they might be not allowed into a shop or charged more because of the color of their skin.

You know, that that's a terrible you know, they've gone way outside And so we have the duty to say, there's no, I'm not doing that.

You know, I'm gonna charge them the same as everyone else.

You know? And so, you know, that's that's an important thing, isn't it? To to think about.

I mean, Christians in Afghanistan, that's a that's a really, amazing example to think about, isn't it? Because that's that's a that's a regime that will kill you if you identify Christian or if you set up a church.

So what do they do? Do they submit to Sharia Law? Do they denounce the lord Jesus Christ and convert to Islam? You'd say, absolutely not.

Yeah.

That's what's interesting.

It was interesting because you were talking about, you know, god raising raising up, a government I mean, you know, what what's going on there then in Afghanistan.

Yeah.

And I guess, we we we don't know everything, but I I guess, there is a demonstration of, what it is to live under Sharia law, and what it is to live under Islamic law.

And it's horrific And, it sort of really shows what that's like to the whole world.

And maybe god in his kindness is saying, hey.

Look.

Look at this.

This is really what it is to live on it to Islamic law.

Women have no rights, children, you know, have no rights There's just a bunch of these, misogynistic, men, ruling in vile, bullyish ways, and, you know, god it is kindness.

Might be just saying, look at that.

Yeah.

And I guess Because I mean, the cush because although, you know, we we have rules in this country that have gone back to Christianity, they're largely tolerant.

And, you know, we are tolerant of other people.

Aren't we? We would we do believe that, people that worship other gods, even though we believe their false gods should be allowed freedom for them to worship their false gods.

Unless there's, you know, baby sacrifice or something, you know, evil within it.

But There's a massive tolerance, isn't there, in what we think as Christians, and it's very different to Islamic laws.

Yeah.

And I guess this, you know, text like this, they do have to be worked out within the context in which people find themselves, you know, not that we compromise on the core truths of it, but I just think in the past, you know, application of it you know, so the the reality is I think if I was living as a Christian under the Taliban, I would be a lot more cowardly than I am here.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? And I think I would and I think there would be I'd like to consider myself to be a, you know, I'll never go against Christ.

And any law that goes against Christ, I won't submit to but, anyway, I mean, I always remember you've said, told the story a number of times about, you know, the those people who lived under those Christians who lived under Romania.

Yeah.

In the Roman.

Yeah.

You know, they were saying, when when when they Give your home group names or something.

Yeah.

When when when the passes, I went there to sort of talk to them about persecution and so forth.

And and and asked them what happens when when, you know, 1 of their members is taken which they which they were a number of them and they're being interrogated and even tortured.

And, you know, they they give the names of the other Christians and the addresses.

And the pastor said, well, of course they would.

They've been tortured.

Why wouldn't they? And they've come back sort of broken and saying, I'm really sorry.

Forgive me.

I gave the name.

It's on a cross.

And the pastor would say, well, of course, you did because you would be tortured.

Don't worry about that.

You know, And it's just a sort of lovely attitude, isn't it? Or the reality of when pain is, you know, inflicted on you, you're you're not really in your right mind.

Living under evil authorities, what warps you, doesn't it, in lots of ways? And Yeah.

Okay.

What other questions are What do we think? Is that what, I mean, is that I mean, with the Romans 13 questions? I Yeah.

And also, it's it's god's, god will, repay, won't he? We don't have to, be the arbiters of judgment in this world.

So if if, you know, in that example in Romania, if someone So you might think it's your responsibility.

This is a Christian to bring that that government down and to hold fast to the end.

Well, that I think that's what I'd wanted to say.

You don't get that here.

Yeah.

So even in our rebellion, we're not talking about the church as a group of god's people rebelling against the government.

I don't think you find that.

You are talking about a certain law.

You're not allowed to preach.

We will preach.

Yeah.

But it's not a church raising itself up in opposition to to a a government.

I don't think.

I don't think we're getting that.

It's just not their not their mission to do that.

It's not their mission.

No.

I suppose because the mission is to pre preach the gospel, isn't it? And but but I think if you you know, you so if you take the Belarus example, you know, you're living under Lukashenko, you know, and everybody is, and the international community is recognized that the opposition ladies, Svetlana, I don't know how to say it second name, but has has won the election.

Yep.

I think as a Christian, you you you could.

You don't have to, but you could join a kind of revolutionary movement to to get to try to get her who is now the rightful authority to be able to be the rightful authority.

I don't think you have to, and I certainly don't think you should it's not anarchy.

You you don't sort of bring that about at all costs and make it the mission of the church.

But providing it's a peaceful revolution because you want to bring into power, 1 who would better reflect some of the things that we've been talking about.

She won't be perfect.

She's probably not a Christian, I don't think.

And but generally speaking, we'll uphold in a way that Lukashenko doesn't what is good and punish what is wrong.

Yeah.

So we'll more reflect what god intends for authority.

So I think you but the danger is when we that becomes our mission, I think, or when it becomes violent or, you know, Then you're not leaving room for god's wrath.

You're not leaving room for god's plan.

You're not leaving room for god to be the 1 who suddenly deals with with them.

You take it into your your own hands to be the to be the judge.

Yeah.

And, you know, we're we're living in a a a world where we can go to, our government and say, can you put pressure on the Belarusian government or what what whatever, you know, can we not why are we why are we having ties, financial ties? Why are we giving arms to things? We have a rock.

We're we're in a a world where we have a right to say all kinds of things.

You know, why why is the tax Haven for North Korean government in London, that sort of stuff.

You know, we we got a right to sort of ask these questions.

Yeah.

And, try to, and certainly be praying and caring and And writing to MPs and writing to MPs and stuff and do that.

Trying to help our brothers sisters in in communist land and in difficult lands.

Yeah.

And communist lands.

Yeah.

Wilberforce was a great example of this, wasn't he? William Wilberforce because he he's dedicated his life to the abolition of the slave trade and campaigning for that.

And he he he won it, didn't he? But he won it through the system that was in place, which was to propose a bill and to get support for the bill and then introduce it as law.

It's amazing film, about him.

Was it called amazing grace? Yeah.

It's a great film about him, and you see the struggle that he went through.

That's, that's, you know, that's a brilliant example.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And Ron shaftsbury, he went through all of the loads of law.

And to change.

You know, so women are not even now not allowed to go down a coal mine.

Because, they were a bit sexist, isn't it? Exactly.

Well, that's the fact.

That's the vocalist.

Very funny thing is Yeah.

That he 1 of the laws that he helped, he helped children, laws, animal laws, animal rights.

He was an amazing bloke.

1 of the laws was that children, you know, a certain age, and, women were not allowed to go down corn wise.

It's just a horrific job.

But it wasn't, too long ago.

Whoops.

It wasn't too long ago when a women's campaign that said that was sexist.

I should be allowed to go down.

Yeah.

I mean, I would have to say you go love Yeah.

Go and have a look.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's a completely yeah.

And I mean, just to maybe just to come back to what at the beginning, I think as with all of these questions, like like what's happened to people in the world who haven't heard the gospel, you know, I think there's good for us to talk about it, but, in the end, we we we ought to ask the question, you know, well, I have heard the gospel.

How am I responding to and it's the same with this, isn't it? We can talk importantly about different situations in the world and what Christian shouldn't shouldn't do, but I think, you know, if I'm sat there sort of telling other Christians what they should do in Belarus and also downloading music illegally and not getting my NOT.

I mean, I should just be quiet really and say, well, how serious am I about this text then? You know, I am acting like I'm serious about it, but actually, I'm not, you know, 1 of the questions about the wake up stuff because that's the sort of thing that's going on there.

Yeah.

What does it mean to wake up? Where where is that? That's in verse 11.

Do this understanding the prison time, the has already come upon you, for you to wake up from your slumber.

Yeah.

So, I mean, that's exactly what you're saying, I think, isn't it? That these are big weighty truths.

Don't slumber through them.

Don't sort of, you know, lie through the by ripping off things and not obeying the government in 1 area and then plating other Christians in in with difficult land.

So wake up, wake up to these truths, think about them.

Yeah.

We're in a real world.

Let's dip these these are these hard things here.

But largely, it's love that's pushing here.

I love of god, the love of price, and we're even able to love those who are perseverance.

That's a big thing.

Great.

Okay.

Here we go.

Think we're are we done? I am.

Okay.

Well, there there we go.

That's that's the last of these podcasts we're doing based on the questions that came from Romans.

So I hope these have been helpful to you.

And perhaps, you know, when you face these questions again in the future, you get asked them.

You can revisit these these podcasts and cornerstonechurchkingston.

org's the place to go.

I I think I mentioned last time as well that Pete reached a few years ago through the whole book of Romans and no doubt.

Well, obviously, address this as part of that.

So you can go back to that sermon, or, I mean, I don't know how many you did it.

Roman says, maybe you can go and listen to those as well.

And, yeah, stay tuned for for future podcast series.

.