Everyday Cornerstone

Transcript (Auto-generated)

Hello.

Thanks for tuning into another Cornerstone podcast.

I'm here with Ben Pete.

Hello.

Hello.

I'm Tom with pastors at stone church in Kingston, and this is a, mini series of podcasts that we're doing, in response to some of the great questions that we have as we read the book of Romans together during the media fast as a church family.

And, we've created a new podcast channel, for these podcasts, which don't really belong in a big series, but I still, you know, we still want to encourage you to listen to called Everyday Cornerstone, and, you can tune into that.

Subscribe to that.

Listen to those and podcasts.

We've got things on, squid game, for instance, cultural podcast.

We've got some parenting podcasts on there, and that's where we're putting these responses to the Romans questions too.

We've done 1 already.

Addressing some of the questions that came out of Romans 9.

So if you haven't listened to that already, then, you can go there if that's where your questions are.

And, this episode is going to mainly be dealing with questions in Romans, Romans chapter 11.

Sorry.

Just before we go to Romans 11, because I'd like to go back to the Romans 9 thing because I think 1 of the things people ask, and it and it's sort of put very simply is can we sing that song, I have decided to follow Jesus if we've read Romans now.

How does that go, Tom? I you've made me.

Should we sing it together? I have decided to follow Jesus.

I have decided To follow Jesus.

I have decided to follow Jesus.

No no turning back.

Note turning back.

And it goes on.

Yep.

And and people said, oh, we can't sing a song like that or or the songs that say, you know, I've chosen Christ or or whatever because of Romans 9, but that's not true, is it? Because I think, I have decided to follow Jesus.

But because Christ has enlivened me and brought me to life and the spirit of god has, you know, brought me into the into the new birth.

So I think that's I I think it's a lovely thought.

So spurgeon talks about, you know, god doesn't just come in and smash into and make us autonomous.

He didn't say that, but, you know, make us into robots that just say, okay, I will follow Jesus.

He woozes by the spirit.

He opens our blind eyes to see the beauty of Christ.

He opens our heart as he does with Lydia in the book of acts so that our hearts are changed and we see the beauty of Christ.

Christ hasn't changed.

For.

But now we see him.

Yeah.

And so we're warm to him.

We're wooed by him, and I decide to follow him Yeah.

Because I have that new heart.

So, yeah, absolutely, isn't it? Yeah.

Brilliant.

Yeah.

I think it's really good.

Okay.

We're good at chapter 11.

I forgot that.

No.

That's not nothing else to add.

It's a great summary.

Yeah.

So, why, you know, add to it when it's, you know, so good.

So we're we're doing Romans 11 and, we're having a think, well, do you wish you Do you wanna read just to give us a flavor of what we're gonna be looking at? Yeah.

So, after our media files where we read through the book at Romans, we asked people from the congregation to write in questions, and there were a couple from Romans chapter 11.

Here we go.

The first 1 is, are we to understand that all the people of Israel will be saved or that the remnant of Israel will be saved.

And what the difference is between Israel as a nation and Israel as a people group, for example, is the nation is National Israel still holding a special place in God's site? For lots of questions to do with Israel.

Who is Israel? Where is Israel? What is Israel? And then a couple of questions about the branches.

So if you've been grafted in by god, can you be cut off? And, yeah, another question about the branches.

So what is that about who why are people being cut off? How could he be drafted in? Is it a 1 in, 1 out? That kind of stuff? Yeah.

Well, the branch's metaphor comes from comes from the second half of Rome 11, where Paul is talking about, the the gentiles, coming in to this this fruitful tree of god's kind and god's grace and god's promises.

And, it's I think it's worth saying with this chapter as I think we said in Romans 9 as well is that even Paul himself the end of the chapter when he's coming to his conclusion, really, says, how unsearchable are god's judgments and his paths beyond tracing out who has known the mind of the lord.

So, you know, he's been addressing the progress of the gospel, in the world, you know, the, the relationship between the Jews to their heritage and their ancestry and the promises of the messiah, the way in which the gospel has gone to the gentiles.

And they've been grafted in and that god is not having 2 separate people, but 1 people he's now building together in Christ.

And he's tried to work out, you know, why it's happened in that order and why there was a hardening so that there could be an engrafting be careful if you've been engrafting the and all of these things he's dealing with, and then he kind of in a celebration of praise says, look, you know, there are there are unsearchable things here.

There are paths beyond tracing out.

Look, isn't it just praise god for his glorious grace to the world in Christ? And so if even he's happy to say that, it shows, firstly, our response to this should be praise for god's grace, but also it's okay to say there is something unsearchable and beyond tracing in in all of this.

And, yeah, there is things that we can say and we can know, isn't there? So So it's humble, isn't it? It's humble thanks thankfulness to Christ.

We don't come arrogantly.

And we don't use these chapters to beat other Christians up and, and and divide from them.

The whole point is really here is unity, isn't he? He wants unity.

And, I mean, I guess 1 of the great, great, great, problems or or things that they had to work through in the early church was the very fact that you had Jews and gentiles in the church.

You gotta remember, that's a that's a humongous separation there.

Mhmm.

And the and and those brought up, Jews who Paul is and the apostles were you know, what the whole feeling was to separate from from the gen cars, wasn't it? And that they are the special people of god.

And, for Jew and gen and the gentiles hated the Jews.

And so that whole coming together, is it like a massive thing in, in in church history that you would sit in church next to a Jew.

Yeah.

And he would sit next to a a gentile who'd sit next to a barbarian who'd say next to a, you know, a Scythian.

Yep.

These are these are sort of classes of people that were Yeah.

Were hated each other.

Yeah.

It just loathed each other.

Yeah.

And so it's a beautiful thing what churches, what the gospel does here Yeah.

And, I think at the end of this letter in Romans, Paul talks about taking an offering to Jerusalem, doesn't he? Yeah.

And that's from the gentile church Yes.

So you've got gentiles.

Yeah.

And so it's not just Jews sort of letting, coming alongside gentiles, but it's also gentiles then honoring and loving Jews.

So, yeah, so it was a wonderful picture of the church and the change that Christ, sort of makes in us when when we come to him.

And 1 of the things he's trying to do in this letter is to exclude all boasting.

You know, the only thing that we can do is boast in the Christ of Christ.

By which we're saved.

And, you know, there are things he says in the letter which make us think that that kind of boasting was was going on.

And so in the first few chat he establishes that, you know, the gentiles or the pagan world is all alike under the judgment of god, and he describes some of their behavior, which proves they've given over to their sin.

But then in chapter 2, he's almost, you know, he turns to those Christians who've got a Jewish and says you therefore have no excuse you can pass judgment on someone else, and then he goes on to show that you do the very same things, even worse, you know better, and yet you still do them.

So don't look at your gentile Christian neighbors and despise their upbringing in their background because, actually, you you yourselves did the very same thing.

So He's trying to eliminate boasting there, isn't he? And it looks like something similar is going on here.

So, you know, we're told in chapter 11 that the gentiles have been grafted in to this covenant tree, the tree of the living god, the tree of the gospel promises.

And, you know, it might be that some of the gentiles were saying, oh, yeah.

You know, you choose who reject you've been off.

You know? It's not all about you anymore.

You're but then he actually says to them, look, but, yes, you have been crafted in, but just careful because, you know, if you don't really trust in Christ or if you stop trusting Christ, what happened to them will happen to you? So, you know, be careful.

You think you're standing strong.

You know? And so he's trying to, you know, it looks like there might have been some boasting the other way there, and he's just trying to level it all and say, no.

Look, come on.

None none of that.

We're boasting in Christ.

This is all about Christ, and you, you know, you should love each other, really.

Yeah.

Is there a sense here though that, actually, everything was cut off.

So it's not that the Jews remained in the route, and now the gentiles are joining them.

But that actually, the Jews were disobedient.

The Jews were cut off, and the and the gentiles have been grafted in.

Actually, the Jews have to be regrafted back in.

So even though Jews, you're sort of coming home in a sense, you were you're having to be grafted back in the same as the gentiles.

So though you're more familiar with the history of now the church, the process by which you join it is exactly the same as the gentiles.

So you can't boast if you're a gentile, you can't boast if you're a Jew.

Yes, I I think he's saying that the the the the history of of Israel.

God, you know, choosing Abraham, that growing into, you know, the Jewish nation, all all of that history, you know, you know, the whole idea that, in deuteronomy that that that that this nation, out of all the nations is god's treasured possession, you know, all of that blessing because, you know, they are they are they are due.

Jesus is a Jew, you know, the apostles of Jews.

Yep.

That that is from that history comes the blessing to the world.

From Abraham comes the blessing to the world.

You know, it's it's it's not from others.

It's from Abraham.

It's through Isaac.

It's not through Ishmael.

You know? Yep.

So all of that blessing and that that history comes to us, and we're engrafted into that.

Yeah.

Which is which was god's plan, obviously.

Yep.

So I think he's saying that.

I mean, I think he's he's he's he's generally saying that that both Jew and Gentile, are are now the Israel of god.

And he said he certainly says that in in Galatians chapter 6 that that both Jew and Gentle are are what are are now the the new Israel.

So when we're talking about nations and stuff like that, I think we it's quite difficult to know what people quite mean.

Because actually Christianity is its own different thing.

We are aliens in this world, but with a new Israel I've got.

Yep.

You know, am I British? Yeah.

I was born in Britain, but, no, I'm a citizen of heaven.

Am I Jewish? No, I'm a gentile, but I'm a citizen of heaven.

Is my Jewish friend who trusts in Christ Is he Jewish? Well, yeah.

But now he's a citizen of heaven.

He's part of the new Israel.

I think we've gotta think like that.

Yeah.

And I think that's I mean, that's true now, and there's a sense in which that's always been true.

Yeah.

Isn't it? So, so when you look back in the old test you know, places like Isaiah 5 and, you you know, the the people of god are described as the vineyard of the lord.

They are the fruitful tree fig tree.

So these illustrations were used of of god's people.

But they were always expected to actually trust in trust in the promises of god and not just rely on their ethnic privileges.

And that's the point he makes in chapter 11 about the the 7000 who have not yet bowed the need to to bail.

You know, there's a sense in which Israel could have at that time, in Elijah's time, been, defined by Ahab and Jezebel and Beow worship, but he says, no, that's not.

Is that That's not Israel.

Not all Israel is Israel.

I'm talking about the: 7000 Yep.

Who didn't yet bow the need to bail and still love Yah and his promises.

That was the true Israel within the Israel, because they had faith.

And, you know, that that those there's seats of that all throughout the New So it's the circumcision of the flesh.

Yes.

But this circumcision of the heart.

That's what was promised.

So there's a sort of true spiritual Israel.

And belonging the people.

And so in in reality, the gospel is just the fulfillment of what was always the case that to truly belong to god's people, was faith in the common.

And and and that true spiritual Israel, it, goes out goes outside the even the the Jewish nation, Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rayhab is brought in.

And even Jesus talks about, you know, Elijah under when there were 7000 that hadn't bowed the knee.

Still, he goes to tire or where a siding or wherever it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And and that woman is engrafted in.

Neiman is engrafted in.

As a believer in in, you know, there are these things.

And even even Christ's, pedigree, Yeah.

You you, you know, you see Naomi and Yeah.

Ruth and The mower bite.

Yeah.

The mower bites and so all of those people are are are ingrafted in to be the people of god.

So this is, yeah, absolutely.

And it has always been the case, has it not that not all of so 1 of the questions is, will all Israel be saved? And the answer is yes of the the true Israel? And there's the distinction, isn't there between the the national people and the remnant within? Now that the church is the remnant, isn't it? So it's everyone in the church is saved.

There's not a kind of, classism within the church of like you had in the old sort of testament where there was the nation of Israel, but you had unbelievers within that.

Now the church is made up of only believers.

Yeah, and you, I mean, just before we started recording, you were pointing exactly that out in Romans 11.

So, you know, verse 25 26, you know, I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery others so that you may not be conceded so that, you know, Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the gentiles has come in.

And so all Israel will be saved as it is written.

So so in his mind, the saving of all Israel includes the number of the gentiles coming in.

Mhmm.

You know, and so that's important.

And, I mean, there are some tricky things with this because, you know, in 9 to 11, it does sometimes it does look, oh, he really is talking about, like, ethnic Israel there.

And then at other times, you think, oh, no.

He's talking about the true Israel there, and he's sort of playing with the love words a little bit.

But here, it seems pretty clear that the salvation of all Israel includes, the redemption of both gentiles and Jews, and they become the Israel of or they are rather the Israel of god and the, you know, the true Israel.

So all Israel will be saved in the sense that the full number of god's people in the world are going to come in, you know, and not 1 will be left out or forgotten or, excluded.

Yep.

Yeah.

And it's by faith, as he says, right at the beginning of Romans that the Jew and the Gento come in, I think there was 1 of the questions about, the trouble is it said something like will Israel be saved or something? Quite remember how it put it.

Do you mean that National Israel? Yeah.

Is National Israel still holding a special place in God's side? Yes.

So, I mean, it it depends what they mean by that, but I guess that I would take that to mean that place, that land called, whether we call Israel now, used to be Palestine is Israel.

Now that bit of land.

Yeah.

Is that special? Yeah.

And I think the Bible would say no.

Yeah.

It's just a piece of land.

Is that the promised land? No.

No.

It never was.

It was only a picture of of of the new, the new land.

Is that Jerusalem worth fighting for? No.

Not really.

So I I don't think it means anything like that, but, are Jewish people Yep.

Are going to be saved.

Yes.

Absolutely.

They are going to be saved.

They have turned to Christ, and many of them are around the world.

There are many Jewish, you know, what is often called messiahenic aren't they? They're they're they're they're they're Jews, but they're they're followers of the lord Jesus Christ.

That's the and and it does seem that maybe there'll be revival amongst them.

There'll be more Jews coming to know Christ as there will be more gentle as we would hope for all the next Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think 1 of the questions is, you know, was something I'd like Do we dislike the Jews? The answer is no.

We don't dislike anyone, do we? I mean, it it's extraordinary how no way should we be anti submitting? Cause God will save these people.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And I think As we shouldn't be anti journal, whatever.

And we should have a gospel, you know, a gospel heart for them, you know, as, as we do for, for everyone.

And there's a sense in which, you know, you know, Jewish people, or, you know, who are have a sort of more orthodox faith, you know, they still are like he describes them here growing up, you know, with with the scriptures, with the law, with the words of the prophet, all of which were trying to gear them and prepare them for Christ.

And so as they sit through the day of atonement festival for another year and as they look at Purim and they have all these rhythms throughout their calendar, which are trying to show them that the Messiah has now come.

And so there's a sense in which they have that foreshadowing still and have access to all those pointers to Christ.

And so there's a there's a blessing in in that.

A massive blessing, isn't it? I think where it goes wrong is that, sometimes any, you know, in Christian, wings of the Christian church as well is that, the the Israel, the the is the people of Rail become become really the center.

And and what happens is you end up basically with 2 people of god.

Yeah.

There's the church Yes.

Which is the church all around the world, the bride of Christ.

And then there's the real people of god, which is Israel, you know, and you just end up with these 2 different peoples of god.

And then Jesus is gonna come back specifically to Jerusalem and raise up the temple again and reestablish the and it's all it's all focusing in on the Israel when actually that, I mean, you know, that really is a blast for me because because the 100 percent is the church is the bride of Christ who he gave his blood for.

That's who he's washing clean bringing together.

That that's his people.

There aren't 2 subsets of the people of god.

There's just 1.

No.

I mean, I I I I I I was reading about there's a bloke in America who's trying to breed the red heifer, because that was the particular thing that's sort of we've lost that, you know, trying to sort of reread things to get back the red heifer so that we can open up the sacrifices in Jerusalem again.

For me.

That is not even slightly Christian because because Christ has fulfilled all of that.

We don't need Jerusalem.

We don't need uh-uh, other than the the new Jerusalem in heaven.

We don't need to sacrifice.

We don't need the sacrificial system.

We've got the high priest.

We've got the lamb.

We've got the you know, dies for the sins of the world.

That is where it all goes wrong, isn't it? We raise up these 2 people, as you say.

Or or or it it can become politicized.

So really the, the mission of the church is about sort of giving money to pro Israel causes and sort of getting more in politics and trying to sort of I mean, that that those are obvious wrongs and, you know, misguided.

But, you know, we we, nonetheless, have a great passion We want, you know, we want, you know, we want what Paul happens here, you know, for for real Jews to sort of look at the gospel that, yeah, actually that, you know, we're jealous of how that's go.

Well, you know, that's our we wanna trust our messiahs.

We want them to come in as we do with everyone, you know.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

So, I mean, it is a very interesting thing, isn't it? We're to live a life that would cause envy of Israel.

We have the Messiah.

We're following the Messiah.

We're, seeing all the old testament pictures fulfilled in the messiah.

We get to call Yahweh Father, you know.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

What else are we missing here? About yeah.

Go on.

I think that that covers the Israel stuff quite a lot.

There there are some questions about, can you be grafted out? So all this business, I think, in verse 22, consider therefore the kindness and sternness of god's sternness to those who fell.

But kindness to you provided that you continue in his kindness.

So provided that you continue in his kindness, can you ever be grafted out again once you've been grafted Well, the this this just as a sort of by the way, it's just it's just shows how amazing the Bible is.

It is an incredibly pastoral book.

And so sometimes in this letter, Paul is wanting to say at the end of to Ray that it literally does not matter what you go through.

There is not a power in heaven or on earth that could separate you from the love rights, nothing, not your sin, not the suffering you go through, not legions of demons, trying to get in the way nothing.

But at other times, whilst that's true and we rejoice in it, the Bible says to us, stand firm to the end if you wanna be saved.

Stop trust in Christ, you'll be cut off.

Yeah.

You will.

So carry on.

Keep keep your eye and keeping the kindness.

Watch it.

Keeping the love of Christ.

You know? Both are true.

Is interesting because, years ago, the the the the phrase was perseverance of the saints.

In other words, and god will be with you, working with you to persevere, but you had that that sense that we we keep on keeping on Yeah.

And then, what came in was another phrase, which I think is unhelpful, which was once saved, always saved.

And it sounds right because that's true.

If you're saved by Christ, he will keep you.

But that phrase doesn't is it misses out the whole sense that the way god keeps you is by persevering.

So it will be out of work out your salvation.

So once saved always saves sort of gives me the, oh, I'm saved.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I can do anything I like, live how I like, I was saved when I went forward at a mission, in, you know, 19 28, I was saved then, but I haven't lived a Christian life at That's really not how the Bible teaches it.

Yeah.

It's keep on keeping on.

And the way we keep on keeping on is keep looking at Christ.

And that's what you're saying there.

Don't but don't start being boastful.

Yeah.

Jen being a gentile is better than being a Jew.

Well, being a Jew is better than being a gentile.

Stop it.

Yeah.

You're in Christ.

Keep looking at Christ.

Because if you're boasting, you are no longer trusting in the kindness of god, are you? Yet the new living translation translation 1st 22 is continue, trusting in his kindness as trusting there, which I think helps, clarify what that means.

It doesn't mean continue working hard, continue obeying him, in the sense that you are obeying every law perfectly.

It's continued trusting that Christ has done everything sufficient for your salvation.

And so when you mess up, you are trusting in Christ still.

For your salvation.

To say you died for sinners.

Yeah.

So you haven't failed to continue trusting in Christ, even when you sin, Isn't that amazing? Because even once you have sinned, you are still in the category of trusting Christ Yes.

For your salvation.

And you're persevering in going for that.

Yes.

Yeah.

And actually coming back to Christ in repentance is trusting in him.

Yes.

So repentance is not you failing as a Christian.

It is you sort of being a Christian.

That's what being a Christian is.

Yes.

Yeah.

Repenting.

It's a consistent gospel life, isn't it? Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the skill with the skill in living together as brothers and sisters, and, is knowing when, when, when to apply which thing, isn't it? You know, so you you've got a brother or sister who's really struggling.

They're feeling unsure of their position and genuine believers, but for whatever reason, having a big wobble.

You wanna remind them of the Romans 8, don't you? But if you've got someone who's claimed to be a Christian for many years and is yet moving away from priced, well, it may not be the wisest thing at that point to remind them of their election, but to say, actually, if you carry on in that direction, don't think you won't be cut off.

You know, you will.

And so it's the skill is in knowing and and the prayer is in knowing how to apply, isn't it, these truths? So when you say that, it reminds me at university, there was someone, who week after week would come in and go very shaky, wobbly, or I'm not a Christian.

I'm a sinner.

I'm a sinner.

And week after week, we would go, oh, look.

You can say, by grace, you're you're in the fold, and that just didn't seem to break any pattern or habit.

In the guy, but then 1 day, he was like, yeah.

I'm a singer.

And I just said, yeah.

You are.

You're absolutely filthy, mate.

Why would god want anything to do with you? And that sort of seemed to shock him.

Yeah.

And, actually, I think that positively had a positive change in him.

Because it wasn't just applying the same medicine.

You did need you do need different medicines sometimes, as you say.

Yeah.

That's and that and and it can take a while to learn that, can't it? Because although on the 1 that had that sounds like genuine contrition, like, that actually proved to be a kind of false humility and pride.

Yeah.

You know, there's no way Christ could save me.

I've done too much.

He, you know, I he doesn't know how much I've done to stop it.

Trusting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I I I actually would say, sorry.

I would say is the same medicine is exactly the same medicine.

You're just coming from a different angle.

Yeah.

Right.

Because the medicine is Christ, isn't it? Yeah.

So for the person that's Oh, am I saved? Am I saved? What did Christ do on the cross? What did Christ do on the cross? For the person that's saying, I was saved and I can do anything I like.

It's hold it.

He died for your sin, to to cleanse you of sin, not to live a life like that.

It's it always is back to Christ, isn't it? They're in 1 sense.

It's the same medicine.

Yeah.

Okay.

What other questions have we got? Now, we've done on those who feel like we've adequately talked about Israel, the difference between the the physical place, the nation in the old testament, and now the true sort of remnant of believers? I I hope so.

Hopefully, Donna has given the limitations of the, I mean, of us and this format.

Yeah.

There are great reams and books written on these things, but it's probably okay for now.

I think people can always come back, you know, if they want to.

Yep.

Yeah.

Great.

We think we've answered all the questions that people have asked.

Very good.

So there's a few others that we've got, probably not for today, there's there's 1 on, like, odd odd ones on Romans 10, Roman 13, you know, it's gonna come back to runs as well.

Yeah, so we'll we'll come back from so there'll be at least 1 more of these.

So as I said, beginning, you can go on to our website and, listen to loads of other different resources.

You've reached, you know, for how many years it was, but along a long time through the the book of Romans.

So if there's any kind of particular sections or passages, you you you're keen to know more, then you go to our back catalog and download those.

We've got other podcast series which you can tune into and, hope to catch you for the next 1 of these.

.