Christianity A-Z

Welcome to our fourth Christianity a to z podcast. Thank you for joining us again. Today. I am here with Pete Woodcock, who is the senior pastor of Quantum Church and Ben, 1 of our assistant pastors. My name is Tom Switman.

I'm an assistant pastor as well. If you are watching this on YouTube, then you can like and subscribe and hit the bell to make sure that you get notified whenever we release another 1 of these. You can also go on to our church website, constant church kingston dot org. You can find sermons and other resources to help you in your faith. And today, we are looking at the devil because we are on better better deed.

So Pete, you're gonna share a verse with us, which just which just to start with helps us understand who the devil is and something of his Yeah. So Jesus is in the middle of a conversation with religious leaders. It's all they're accusing him of being of the devil and all of that sort of stuff. But Jesus, in his reply, shows us the main characteristics, I think of the devil. And this is in John chapter 8 in verse 44.

He says you belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth. But there is no truth in him. When he lies, He speaks his native language for he is a liar and the father of lies. So the 2 big characteristics of of the devil is that he is a liar, the father of lies, when he lies, that's his native language.

It's an amazing sort of image, isn't it? And that he is a murderer. He's about destruction and death, and and those things are gonna be around him. Lies and death lies and death, and that's what we should watch out in many ways. And just extraordinary that Jesus would accuse those religious people of being the offspring of 1 like that.

Yeah. Well well, because they're listening to lies about who Jesus is, they're not they're not understanding the scriptures. So they're listening to lies. Yeah. I mean, they are.

They're, in many ways, good people. But because they're listening to lies about who Jesus are, and they want to kill Jesus. Mhmm. So, you know, yeah. Murderers and liars.

Yeah. Yeah. Other things, Ben, that we know about the devil from the bible? Yeah. Just that we're we're told we are told about him, first of all.

God doesn't keep him a secret. Mhmm. He wants us to be warned of who he is. And we even have the account, don't we in Genesis of of from the beginning of that we just had read. He's a he's a liar and a murderer from the beginning, and we have that account from the beginning, and we see we see his lie and the way he hates and wants to deconstruct.

And we've just been introduced to God as well in Genesis. What haven't we? He's the God of life and love who speaks truth and beauty. And then comes in this father of lies who brings destruction and false falsehood. Yeah.

I think I think it's interesting and you can trace that whole theme throughout the bible, can't you of the lies and the murder? We don't know an awful lot about the actual origins. Of the devil, do we? We're not we're not told a huge amount about where he came from and what was exactly There are some suggestions and people take sort of Isaiah in the falling of lucifer and so forth as him. And there's sort of arguments over that.

But, yeah, you're right. We don't know too much. What we do know is that he was there in the Garden of Eden, and he was manipulating and distorting the word of God because that's what he does. Yeah. He's not what we also know is that he's not equal or on par with God.

Yes. He's a creature. He's a creature. He has been made who's not omnipotent or omnipresent. A lot of people have this idea of him being everywhere and behind every evil thing.

But because he's created, he's not like God in in in all of those different ways. So he can only be in 1 place at 1 time and is not sort of Jesus' equal in that That's really important, isn't it? Because there is a kind of, you know, thought in particularly, I think in eastern thinking of of dualism -- Mhmm. -- where you have God and Satan, and they're basically equal and opposite forces all good and evil. And you know, what 1 day 1 might be winning, and the other day another might be winning, and you're never quite sure how the story is gonna end -- Yeah.

-- which doesn't say much for for God, but it's also very impartially difficult. Well, isn't that the isn't that the Star Wars philosophy? Mhmm. Light side in Dark? There's light side in dark souls, fighting others in there.

Yeah. And it's always sort of in the balance. I think I think the other thing is that a lot of people when they hear about, you know I mean, he's called quite a few names, isn't he? You know, Satan and lucifer and father of lies and the devil and and those sort of names. But I think people have this medieval idea or this exorcist film idea that, you know, he's got horns on his head and there's a sort of joke version of him, isn't there?

And then there's a sort of violent frightening horror film sort of a caricature of him. And of course, if he turned up like that, you know, we would all know, wouldn't we and think way. You know, but the great thing about a liar is that they that they they know how to you know, a liar doesn't say the most extra well, they can do, but they don't just say the most extraordinary obvious untruth. They manipulate and and add and cause doubt to the truth, don't they? They do.

Yeah. I think that's really that that's really important to pick up on because we're not just dealing with the bizarre stuff of horror film here. Let let me just because as you said that, let me just bring in this this quote from a book I've read recently, which I would really recommend by a chap called David Powell, who's gone to be with the Lord but the last book that he wrote was called safe and sound and it was about spiritual warfare and he picks up on some of the things that you were just saying when he describes the devil. It's a bit of a longer quote but quite helpful, I think. He says the evil 1 is not the primary actor, but he does not only appear when something unusually strange or evil is going on, the real devil is utterly normal and his role is fully integrated into daily life.

Monday evil is the devil's business. At the same time, scripture never puts Satan in his activities front and center. God puts people in our relationship to him and each other front and center, but then just often enough so you don't forget, he lifts the curtain and says, by the way, and gives you a glimpse of what's happening backstage. Now there is there are loads of helpful thoughts in that, but I think the that is that is an interesting thing, isn't it? That when you read through the bible, if Satan is this liar and murderer in the beginning who is, you know, infecting the world with his anti God, anti Christ ideology, why don't we hear more about him?

And, you know, what he's saying is here is that because actually that is not front and set that is not the great story that God is writing. It's about Christ. And Christ's people and how Christ's people relate, that's the story. God is telling. But just so we don't forget, Occasionally, he'll give us a little something to say, by the way, there is a serious spiritual dimension -- Yeah.

-- to your ordinary life. And this this mundane evil is really interesting because it's in some ways, it's quite shocking that when you get to verses like 1 Timothy, where Paul is just talking about the qualifications for an overseer. He's saying things that are very normal, you know, that he shouldn't be a lover of money, that he must manage his family well, to have a good reputation with outsiders. And then all of a sudden, he must not be a recent convert or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil In other words, you know, you know, if this man becomes proud, he is gonna fall into the devil's trap. But the point of that is to show how integrated the devil's lies are with ordinary life, like managing your house and what you do with your money.

And so it's not the bizarre, is it? It's it's utterly normal in in 1 sense. And and sometimes almost swings the other way on the pendulum. So it's not the just he's out to eat you alive and attack you there is the mundane sort of side. But then also, he appears as a friend quite often in Scripture.

So in the Garden of Eden, he he comes to adam and eve, doesn't almost as a friend, say, look, I've got the inside scoop here. I can offer you something. And to Jesus as well, like bow to me, you know, I'll give you So he he doesn't just come threatening all the time either, but it's yeah. Almost as a hood I mean, where he's clever in that yeah. Absolutely.

Where he's clever in in the Garden of Eden? Because he's clever, and we've got to be careful. So we can't we've got to be careful that we think we can out wit him. Yeah. So there are the the yeah.

You're absolutely right. Everything you say. But but, you know, be careful because he might even fool and deceive the elect. And so and he is prowling around like a roaring lion. So there is a reality to him.

So let's be let's be careful with him. That's what we're saying. But what he does in the in the Garden of Eden is is interesting, isn't it? He he turns, he he he makes them he makes them doubt that God said what he said. He makes God out to be a meanie, ungenerous.

Would God really say that sort of stuff? Oh, he's keeping you from that tree, even though he's given you all the trees in the garden, but he picks on the 1 that God said don't eat off. And therefore, He's not that generous look. That sort of stuff. So he belittles God's generosity.

But I think the interesting thing is he he he he makes them look and the eye takes over the the hearing because they'd been given specific laws by God not to eat of that that tree in the middle of the garden, but he makes them look. And it actually specifically says, they looked and saw that it was pleasing to the eye. And often Satan works in in the lying by making us see things, the desire of the heart. We see that woman that we shouldn't be looking at. And we're drawn towards her where we see the thing that we want and we can't afford and we're drawn to stealing it.

That's often how he works, isn't it? Yeah. And he presents it and says look how sort of good it looks. It is pleasing to your eye. Yeah.

And in that way, he's he's almost Yeah. As I said, he's almost putting an arm around our shoulders saying, come on. Like, let me help you here. Which is quite scary in in the world we're in now. I mean, go back maybe 20, 30 years or whatever, and it was quite different.

We were much better at being self disciplined then. But now it's like whatever your heart wants is the celebrated thing, isn't it? What what is pleasing to your eye? Well, you should go after that. So we're in we're in a world that is more sort of alongside him now, aren't we?

Yeah. Our society almost It's follow your desire rather than listen to a command. Yes. Yeah. Because who is who is God to say that I should do this or not do this or whatever.

Yeah. I wanna be me. How can he define who I am and what I should do? And that's what his thing is with adam and eve in the garden. It is you will be like God.

Yeah. You will make up your decisions of what what what is right and what is wrong. That's the huge thing that Satan's always doing. Yeah. It's over to you.

You make up your mind. Your God. You will be like God. Mhmm. Yeah.

And and yet, God said we've been made like God in every way we should, except we are creatures and we should be under his word. Mhmm. But he's saying, no. No. No.

No. You wanna be above his word. You make up your word. Yeah. And and in doing that, he is he's like a god mimic, isn't he?

Or a god ape? You know? He's he's not just claiming to know more than God, but to to be God himself. That if you listen to me and listen to what I say, then you will be satisfied, then you will know the truth. So he he wants us to think of himself as the satish fire, the truth provider, and to take the place of God.

And he wants to turn us into God mimics as well. He wants to convince us that we too can be God and the source of our own truth and the source of our own satisfaction. So all of that all of that is going on. I mean And you get so you get very, very, very clearly in the book of Revelation, where where Satan comes in or the devil comes in. And he meant he can only mimic.

He can this is the thing about the devil. He he's not a creator. No. So he can only take what God creates and distorts and twist. So, you know, sex, God God created sex.

Sex is really good, but it's the devil that he can't create sex but he perverts it and twists it and turns it. And you've got this in the book of Revelation where he's you've got this whole business of a of a false trinity. That that that the world is going to worship. And it's very, very I mean, I can't go into all the details, but it's very, very clear how he's trying to have a substitute holy spirit. He's trying to have a substitute father.

He's trying to have a substitute savior. And everything is a substitute and mimicking God so that we don't worship the real God. Yeah. It's really helpful. I remember your sermon series in that.

It was a very, very helpful even sort of disarmed some of the the more mysterious things about Satan that people are afraid of, like, the number 6 66 as an example, is exactly when you understand biblical sort of language and numbers, 7 is God's number, isn't it? And so 6 6 6 is not God, not God, not God, not God, you know, tries to mimic, you know, holy, holy, holy, 6 6 6, but not God, not God, not God, and that is is that rather than something to be afraid of, it's something to almost mock him by and and say, you are not who you're trying to be. You will never be God. Mhmm. Yeah.

That's really helpful. So what we're saying here is that, you know, we mustn't have this kind of misunderstanding of the devil that it's just for the bizarre and the horror horror movies. His his lies and his god, APory, and his murderous desires are so integrated into our lives. And I think maybe that's what Paul means in ephesians 2 when he talks about him being the prince of the heir. And because although God this is God's world and God is sovereign over his world, there's a sense and I know you've used this metaphor before Peter of being it's like passive smoking isn't it living here in a sense that it's his world in the sense that we're breathing in his lies all the time.

Yep. You know, and like passive smoking, you know, if we're not careful, we we can't help but be corrupted and hurt by that. And we've got to watch out for that because we will passive smoke the lies of Satan. And so I think that's why Jesus, you know, in that little parable that he gives of a strong man and a stronger man. And and he he talks about this man is is tied up, and and and a strong man is possessing the house.

As it were. And you need a stronger man, which I think is Jesus to come in and to beat the strong man up -- Yeah. -- and to set this man free. You've got that sort of picture that Jesus gives in this parable. I mean, I've not told it exactly wrong, you know, but but is that sort of image.

He is a strong man. He is lying to us, We are passive smoking in his lies, and he lies to us from the day we're born to the day we die. He lies to us about how the world got here He lies to us about what is important in life. He lies to us about what happens after life. Death.

He lies to us about religion. He lies to us about ourselves. He's constantly lying and that's the smoke of the air if you like. And that's why in 1 sense, we we've got to take this very seriously because we then need the truth. Yes.

We need the truth, what what is it the thing that can can save us from satan is the truth. And of course Jesus says I am the truth. That's that's good. Let let's let's move let's keep keep there now and think about how so we talked a bit about who Satan is, who the devil is, how he works, let's talk about how as as Christian people, we we actually live in this world with all the things that we've said and what we need to know. So perhaps In a minute, we could talk about, you know, how we put on the armor of God for instance, how we resist.

I I think the first thing we need to know is that he is a he is a feted enemy. Yeah. He 1 day he will be a destroyed enemy -- Yep. -- when Jesus returns, but he has been through the cross and the resurrection, completely disarmed and defeated. Christ has made a spectacle of him.

Yeah. Christ has triumphed over him. Because the very things that he could use to condemn us -- Mhmm. -- our sin -- Yep. -- has been nailed to a cross.

Jesus has taken us taking it, he's been raised, and we've been declared innocent, not guilty. So although in 1 sense, Satan does have a legitimate claim over us, We are we do deserve to die. We do deserve to go to hell. We do we have sinned against God. Christ has said, yeah, all it's mine.

I'm paying for all of that and he's risen. So he's he's he's made a spectacle of the devil, and that means that we need to know in our battle against Satan and the dark forces. Hundred percent need to know that because because he's always telling you you've sinned again. Yeah. You fail.

The accuser of the And in his court, that's another name for him, isn't he? He's the accuser of of of the brothers and sisters, accusing us day and night. But the blood of Christ has dealt with that, and you've got to keep reminding yourself of that. Yeah. So with that, how us knowing that he's a defeated enemy soon to be destroyed?

What other, you know, tips might be the wrong word, but what other strategies can we employ to to live in this world where there is lies and Yeah. Well -- Yeah. -- so you mentioned the armor of God. 1 of the the pieces of the armor is the belt of truth, isn't it? So it's it's knowing the scriptures and knowing what God has truly said.

It is interesting in the Garden of Eden when the the snake comes to the woman. And he asks her the question, did God really say? She kind of gives an answer which has a bit extra added to it, doesn't she? So she she adds this bit in that says, and you must not touch it or you will die. So she's not she's not quoting exactly the words God has said back to this snake.

And in the wilderness when Jesus is being tempted, he sort of the same interaction happens with him. Yeah. But he knows the scriptures and replies with the scriptures and completely disarms the devil in that sense because he's trying to say, you know, turn these stones into bread and Jesus knows the truth which is that, you know, man cannot live on bread alone. Actually, we need everywhere that comes in the mouth of of God. So what you're telling me is, won't satisfy me.

You're trying to just satisfy my stomach, you know, and get behind me satan, you only have the things of of man in mind, whatever it is. Not not the thoughts God. Not the things of God. I think that's really really helpful because in that, as you say, he actually quotes the Bible, the devil. Yeah.

So the bible the devil does know the bible. But as Eve added -- Mhmm. -- to the Word of God, and therefore, takes away from it. Yeah. Because this seems to be a totally unreasonable.

I'm not even allowed to look at the thing, you know, or touch it or, you know, whatever. Satan quotes of scriptures and doesn't follow on in the quote. Yeah. And you find this actually with all the cults and stuff very often. I remember a cult expert telling me years and years ago if you want to when you're dealing with the cults when they open up the bible, you know, at the Jehovah's Witness, that's what I mean by cults.

They'll they'll quote a verse. Don't panic. Read the verse they quote and just read on a little bit more and you'll find the answer. Yeah. And and and that and and that's nearly always true.

And and Satan, he he he does half a quote, and then Jesus comes back and fully quotes. He puts it in its in its context. Yeah. And that's what we've got to learn to do. So he's clever.

So let's not think that we're more powerful than him. He manipulates the scripture by as you say adding words or subtracting words, not quite getting it right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think what you just did, Ben, I don't know if you realized it, was was exactly the way to put that belt of truth on.

So you were preaching it to yourself. You know, and that you were taking stuff and saying, you know, you need to do this, I need to do this, and that, you know, we we we are likely to fall if we if we think that there's no active element required of us. You know, we do need to know the truth and proclaim the truth to ourselves. And and proclaim the truth to 1 another. Mhmm.

You know, you think about those scenes in in in films when they're they're getting ready for the big the big conflict or the big battle They often need each other's help to put the armor on, don't they? You know, in order to get your shield in the right place and and that's that's how the church functions in some ways. We we we clothe each other in the armor of God so that we stand as a as a as a 1. You know, any any I mean, I know next to nothing about military techniques and tactics, but, you know, even I know that if you try and go alone, you're gonna struggle. You have to stay as a unit and a, you know, a battalion, don't you in order to protect each other.

We're often we often hear, don't we? The Adam sin here was his silence and his reticence to step in and sort of correct and preach to Eve and say, no, that isn't what God said. Let me remind you what God has said. And so that's why we do need each other because sometimes I mean, it's ironic. A a minute ago I was trying to quote the scriptures and I couldn't quite remember them.

But if I was sort of struggling in that sense, someone could step in and say, this is what the scripture says. Let me remind you of it because I know you're under attack here, but let me be clear. And I suppose that's also as preachers It's an added responsibility that we faithfully preach what Scripture says. So that when people turn away and and go into the world, they is a timer? That's a timer.

Stop talking. That's it. Yeah. So it's our responsibility because people are gonna be facing sort of making their stand against Satan, they need to know the word of the lord. Yeah.

Yeah. Well just to pick up on that preaching preaching point, I think You know, we have to keep preaching the gospel, don't we? Because, you know, as you were talking there, I was thinking of Paul where he says, you know, that the devil is blinded the eyes and the minds of unbelievers that they cannot see the glory of God in the face of Christ. You know, there there is a sense in which he's blinded people -- Yeah. -- that they cannot see the glory of Christ.

I mean, only preaching is gonna open. Yeah. And I mean, this always amazes us, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Because when because we're not claiming to be better than anybody else. We're just claiming that the Lord open blind eyes. Absolutely. And now we see Christ we are staggered that people won't look to him. And I I actually think sorry, if you go to the cult, if you go to something like you know, what's that big Hollywood 1 that Scientificology.

Yeah. Scientificology. Yeah. If you seriously look at Scientology, It's ridiculous, isn't it? It's it's just stupid.

It does not make any sense whatsoever. And yet you have highly intelligent people that would follow it. You can only say there's a satan. There's there's a devil. Because their minds, how can you or even mormonism, you know.

I mean there are some religions that make a bit of sense. And they're sort of something logical with internal logic. Yeah. But mormonism is so stupid. It just doesn't make any sense.

And then you have to say, There's got to be a satan there. But even sort of more than that, just the average person that doesn't see the beauty in Christ. His words are extraordinary. Take the sermon on the mount. We're doing a series in that at the moment.

The words are extraordinary. They explain the world. They explain us. They explain our own hearts. They clearly explain God.

There's a consistency and a beauty and a way of saying things that are just magnificent. Yeah. And people can't see the beauty in Christ, then there has to be a devil. I think I think that's really helpful, isn't it? They're seeing the but seeing the beauty of the truth because as we've we've touched on, the devil knows stuff about God.

You know, he knows there is only 1 God. Mhmm. When he comes to Jesus, the demons say, have you come to torture us before the appointed time. So they know there is a time when Jesus the judge is gonna condemn them forever. They know quite a lot of stuff about God, but it's not beautiful to them.

It's not they don't love it and that's what we need to pray because we can't do that, can we? We know God did that in our heart. And that's why we must pray as we teach that the lord would open people's eyes to the beauty and the and the knowledge of God. So all of those things are are really important. Any any other any last closing thoughts?

Well, I I think we've said it, but it's worth knowing because because when Paul talks about the armor of God, that Ben was sort of bringing up the belt of truth. He says, put on the full armor. And then he says, so that you can take your stand against the devil schemes. So I think there are schemes of the devil and he's not he's as I say, he he's not a creator He's not even very imaginative, Satan. And you'll find that his schemes and his ways of doing things are always the same.

So it's worth us looking at the scriptures, seeing how he tempted Adam and Eve in the garden. And working out his schemes the way he he the pattern of his schemes of his lies. And I think when you know that it's very helpful for you to I don't think you can just resist him by knowing that. You need to put the armor of God on as you were saying. We need to look to God and for help in this.

But it's always worth knowing the enemy. Ah, the way the enemy comes is, He does he does this. This is how he comes to me. Therefore, I know that I must put on the armor of God. Yeah.

Do you think I know I just said about closing but I'd just be interested to get your opinions on this perhaps briefly just as people just as, you know, as you know, both both preachers and do you think that Do you think that there there might be a nervousness in us to talk about the realities of these things? Because the secular age we live in, the only things that are real are the things you can see taste touch smell. You know, the idea of a spiritual world you know, Jesus is okay because there's a sense in which he's a historical figure and, you know, we can we can we can preach him. But do you think we're less confident about talking about this stuff because it just sounds so weird to our age, and therefore we lose confidence. And perhaps we actually you know, do people a disservice by not explaining this stuff.

I don't know. Do you do you sort of feel that at all? I think yes. Sorry very cool. I was I was just thinking of Paul going to just going among the gentiles and speaking to them in a language that they could kind of understand and say, I've looked around at your gods.

And I think that if we were in maybe somewhere like Brazil, which is hyper spiritualized and the devil is sort of a public almost like a public entity, you probably should actually call them out and say, I think that what we do largely is we talk about we talk about like the love of money, don't we? And lust, and we talk about the things that the devil presents to us because that's what people will see. And that's what people will identify as well. They'll go, oh, yeah. No, I do have that in me.

So so I think we don't ignore him because Scripture doesn't ignore him, neither does Jesus. But actually Jesus, you know, the beatitudes will not mention him, but will mention Sorry, and the not just the beatitudes, but the servant on the mount. Won't mention the devil, but will will mention adultery, won't he, and murder? And he'll talk about the things that Satan presents to us because those are the things that we no 1 can argue about that. You can argue about whether the Satan exists or not.

But you can look at another man in the eye and say, you know, you've committed adultery because the way that you've looked at other women. And so in that instance, you go straight to the heart of the matter. So that's good, isn't it? Because we're not ignoring. We mustn't ignore, but as as Palish says here, you know, God puts people and our relationship to him into each other front and center.

So that should be our emphasis, shouldn't it? But it's still, yeah, absolutely, I think a brilliant answer, Ben. But I I think also, you know, Paul does talk about behind every idol. Yeah. It is is a demon.

And so I think this you know, it's it's Lewis, isn't it? That says, you know, that there's Satan's dealt with often in 2 ways, you know, that that that there's satan under the bed, satan everywhere. We're we're we're we're always going on and on. It's the mad man that's always talking about it. And then the other way and and that belittles it that belittles him and the power.

And then the other way is to completely ignore the and believe that he doesn't exist. I mean they're 2 of Satan's lives. Let's make him omnipresent. Let's make him not present at all. And so we got to watch it.

I think, you know, Christianity is is a supernatural. Yeah. Thing. It's not just believe a set of doctrines, is it? It's a spiritual God opening, blind dead eyes.

You know, and people are put it in words of Bob Dylan. We're blinded by the devil born already ruined, stone cold dead as we step out of the womb. And that's our spiritual position and we need God to resurrect us and to make us alive. And along with that is Satan lying to us, as we've already done. So get him in perspective, but don't don't don't ignore him, though.

Well, I hope that is exactly what you're gonna take away from this podcast. Don't ignore him, but let's get him in perspective and remember that Christ has has won a day. Thanks for tuning in. We are going to be looking at another another doctrine. Next week, the meta e.

And as I said, beginning, you can you can like, subscribe, you can listen to all of our resources online.