Christianity A-Z

Okay. Welcome to our third episode of Genity a to zed. We have done an introduction. We have done adoption. We've done the bible.

And today, we are looking at the letter c and we're going to be taught thinking about the church with me today is Pete Woodcock is the pastor of Cornerstone Church Kingston. Hello. Then who is 1 of our assistant pastors and I'm Tom Sweetman 1 of the assistant pastors here too. And as I say, we're gonna be talking about the church, what the church is, what it isn't, and what it means to be a part of So, Pete, why don't you kick us off with a definition of the church, if you possibly can, give a succinct definition of what the church is. Well, I think a great definition is at the end of Peter Sermon at on Pentecos when he preaches to a whole load of people from around the world.

And they respond to Jesus Christ. So they've responded to Christ in salvation. And then it says in chapter 2 verse 42 of the book of acts, They devoted themselves to the apostles teaching and to fellowship and to the breaking of bread and to prayer. And there's other stuff there as well. But those things are are really what makes a church.

There's a there's a devoted group of people that are sitting under the apostles teaching, which is now the inscripturated word of the bible that we're seeing in last last session. So they're under that teach working through that teaching in their lives, fellowshipping, which is partnership, working together, encouraging each other, meeting together, breaking of bread, which which I think really does mean that the the the it's not necessarily communion there as people but I think it is eating together because that's part of fellowship. We're we're sharing that which is ours with with other people, and we're praying. Now there are other things you can add, but that's a pretty good lot a good good verse. Great.

Thank you. Ben, other things to add on definitions of the church, any ways in which we can flesh that out a bit? Just that the bible uses quite anthropomorphic language to describe it because there's nothing really quite like the churches there. It's not a club. It's not a sort of just a group of people that meet together.

So the the bible uses language like bride to describe the relationship God has with it -- Mhmm. -- which is quite an amazing picture and body and use lots of different parts to make up a body. And 1 body So if I stub my toe, my entire body feels it. So that's not just a group of sort of limbs hanging out. They're all interconnected.

So it's just quite interesting. The the way that the bible has to use and from anthropomorphic sort of things to describe what this actually is. It's it's it's it's a really significant thing that God has designed. That's really good. So we've got We've got God's people gathering under God's word, fellowshipping together, eating together.

We've got body and bride to describe it. In our in our membership, course which we have at the church. 1 of the verses which we use to describe the church or to stress the importance of the church. Is where Paul says in 2 Corinthians, I've forgotten the exact place now. But he's talking about the church, and he says they committed themselves first to Christ for salvation.

And then to us. And what we say there is that to be a member of the church is to be as committed to 1 another as we are to Christ. Now in our individualistic age, that may sound like quite a high bar. You know, committed to Christ, we can understand that as committed to Christ as we are to 1 another, Why do we why do we think that's so important? Because something of what Ben Ben just said, you know, we're we're is describe the church as the body of Christ and he's the head of the church.

So you've got this 1 thing. How can you be committed to the head without being committed to the body. I mean, it it would be sort of nonsense. It doesn't make sense. And and constantly throughout the whole of bible.

It's always God's people. It's it's it's not individualistic. We're called to a family that's another name for the church. A building. That's another name.

You don't just have 1 brick. And so there's this constant reference to the community of God's people throughout the entire bible. That's just a big thing. In our individualistic age, we think I can get right with God and exclude the church. That doesn't that doesn't make sense to in the bible.

Mhmm. You can't really do that. Sorry. I've forgotten quite what the question was, but No. Just just talking about just why commitment to the church is such an important thing, you know, it's not just a club.

Well, because because Christ was totally committed for the church. And so there are brothers and sisters. And so Christ died for this group of people which we are among. Mhmm. So we're never to think of ourselves individually as always in the body of Christ, my brothers and sisters in the family christ, a brick in the wall.

And it's it's destroyed song, but it's nothing to do with it. And it becomes very difficult not only to read but to obey quite a lot of the New Testament instructions, doesn't it? If we don't exist within the community of God's people. So how am I supposed to, you know, forgive 1 another has God in Christ has forgiven you. How how can I?

If I can't even pray the prayer Jesus taught us. Our father in heaven, you know, forgive our Trespasses. It's it's a it's a communal prayer. It's corporate language, isn't it? Yeah.

And if I've got to bear with you, bear with your burdens, that means that I need to know what your burdens are and to be in your life. And To be affected by them. It's always affected by them. You have to impress them on me. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. So I mean, I'd I'd there's like vast quantities in the new testament that you just couldn't put into practice if you weren't part of the church. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's I I mean, it's not a bible illustration, but it it's a good 1, I always think. It's it's how we are sanctified made more like God. You know, it's the pebbles on the beach illustration, isn't it? The those pebbles are smooth and round because they've smashed up against each other. And before they were in the sea smashing up against each other, they were ragged and sharp edged.

And that's how we grow as Christians ourselves, not just caring for other our brothers and sisters, but actually you know, the the temptations to to argue, the learning to love each other, to forgive each other, to bear as you say each other's burdens, to start again with each other to work things through together. All of that is a bashing that makes us a smooth pebble in in in God's eyes. 1 of the other things we do in our membership course when we're talking about church is which is we kind of try to explain from the bible why church is so important. And then some of the ways in which we try to put this into practice at our church. So it's not that we do everything perfectly, but We've talked about this idea of community and relationship and growing together, sitting under the word of God together, fellowshipping together.

Maybe it will help listeners just to talk about what are some of the ways we try to do that at Cornerstone. And, you know, why do we love why do we love that? So Ben, start with you maybe you could talk about some of the ways in which we fellowship together in more normal times and Yep. Well, we, obviously, on a Sunday morning, gather together as the people. And I think this last year, we've really noticed how important that is.

We've actually really missed it and every opportunity we've had to open the hub up to gather on a Sunday morning, whether it's just watching a video which we did sort of early last year or whether it's just a few of us, like 15 people in the room listening to someone speak. There's there's something tangibly, palpably different to sitting at home by yourself watching watching the same thing really happen, but on a screen. So we gather together on a Sunday morning and we sing. I mean, it's well convented just in a secular sense that singing together is good for you. That was in that was a revelation in the newspapers I remember a few years ago.

And so it was like join a local choir because -- Yeah. -- it's great for your mental health. Yeah. But you know, we've been doing that thousands of years, Christians. We've sing praises to God.

And something that we so we meet together now here in lockdown in March 20 21, but we're not allowed to mingle. Still. And that is another thing that's really important. So it's not just the singing together or the sitting and listening, but it's the how are you? How's it going?

Like how you moved house last week, how did that go? It's the being in each other's lives that also happens on a Sunday morning. The other thing is I think we expect kind of people, you know, with the gifts and the opportunities that God has given them to to contribute to the life the church, don't we? So it's not just the case that we want a group of paid professionals doing all the work, but there is this sense in which we're trying to equip 1 another, to serve to serve 1 another. And so we're always trying to encourage that, aren't we?

People will not not not to go on. Was gonna say, that's that's the amazing thing about a church is that there's a place for everyone. Mhmm. That there it's not the 80 20 split like you said. There aren't leaders who lead and everyone else's bums on seats.

Actually, the way that the church works is we are a body. We're made up of ears and noses and fingers and elbows, and everyone is an important essential part. I mean if ephesians chapter 4 says Christ himself gave the apostles the prophets evangelists, the pastors that teach to equip his people for works of service. And therefore, if you are part of the church, actually, we've got the expression God's gift to the world. You are if you're in a church, you are Christ's gift to that church.

Seriously. Yeah. And and it won't work without you pitching in. Yeah. It's really good.

Yeah. Yeah. And and and know, it's there's a greater quality in that. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. But but a diversity. Yeah. But but because because that's what the church is, isn't it? It's unity in diversity.

And that's what a body is. It's unity in diversity. An eye isn't an ear. A finger isn't a nose. But they're all needed and they're all very important and as important as each other to keep the body going.

So there is an equality but a diversity. And and that is in many ways, it's what the world is hankering after, isn't it? It's it's it's constantly asking for equality. But it the trouble is if you go often you go for equality only, and everybody should be the same, so you get uniformity, or it's everybody's to be different, you get anarchy. But in the church you get this uniformity with diversity because it's a body.

Therefore, you know, the the person that, you know, all they can do is is to is to say perhaps clean the toilet of a building that the church is meeting in because the building isn't the church. You know, you say all they can do phenomenal. What a what a wonderful thing to do and that's really, really important. And it's a gift to the rest of the church so that they can use that without, you know, all kinds of diseases and so forth. I remember you talking about or well, I think we were all there actually, perhaps at at an international kind of party we did some years ago for the internationals in the church.

And we we realized that there was something like, I can't remember how many nations were -- That 40. -- now, 40 nations were represented in the church. And it's just wonderful to see that is a fruit of the Holy Spirit's work, isn't it? You know, what else could unite such a group of people? In that way.

And there can't be racism there. Yeah. You know, we might we might make cultural faux pas -- Yeah. -- and, you know, we may upset each other and we need to learn how to to treat each other. But you can't have racism in a church because the Lord Jesus Christ, the son of the living God, died on the cross for my Chinese friend, my French friend, my German friend, you know you know, wherever they're from and me.

And if we're brought as brothers and sisters, they're my brothers and sisters. How can you have racism? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

You mentioned just now as well and maybe it would be helpful to move on to this a little bit just to help clarify further what we mean by the church. So you said the church is not a building. No. Kindly not. Yeah.

I mean, it's annoying, isn't it? Because we're so used to, you know, walking in the countryside and you say, where are we heading? Why are we heading towards that church? I always try to say that religious building. Because -- Because -- rain shelter.

All rain or rain shelter. You know? Yeah. Now we don't have to be nasty to each other, but a building is a building -- Yeah. -- that that a church might meet in.

I mean, most of those little parish churches aren't churches. They're religious rain shelters and religious people meeting them. The church is a body of people that love the Lord Jesus Christ and listen to his word. Mhmm. Yeah.

Other things that the church is not. He had to I mean, 1 of the things 1 of the things we have in our and that's gonna have all the stuff with the membership because we've just recently done 1. 1 of the things we say is it's not like a gym -- Yeah. -- where nothing of is required of you set money -- Mhmm. -- and you can leave anytime you like.

So we don't wanna be that, do we? Where people just It's more like hotel, California. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

So people come and, you know, to like a gym, it's mainly about self-service individualism, getting what you want out of it. They might require my cash But if I wanna terminate my contract, I can do so, and I don't expect anybody to ask me about that or question me. I can just I can just so it's not a gym. Yeah. It's more like a family or a body.

Just thinking about other ways in which people can get the wrong idea about what church is. Well, it's consumer, isn't it? It's consumer. It's McDonald's. It's a drive through.

I mean, I went believe it or not, I went when I was in America once to a drive through church, a drive in church. And it you you you go in and you sit in your car individually. And they had what they called, communion -- Yeah. -- in your individual car. Yeah.

And you all and I was look it's like sitting in car park in Tesco. Yeah. And you're looking as a woman in her car, she thinks. Yeah. Well, no.

There's not even that. So it's not a drive through let's get some spiritual nourishment McDonald. I like a big mac, you like whatever it is they serve, you know, an egg mac muffin. And we take it or leave it or, you know Yeah. Or I don't really feel like a big mac today.

I might go and get a soup somewhere instead. Yeah. You Or I'm not hungry to something. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Let's let's talk about then. So in the book of Hebrews, 1 of the 1 of the most famous Sorry. Sorry. Just go back to that.

All all like going to the cinema where you sit there and you have an experience with a whole group of people watching a film. You might laugh altogether and clap and move, and you don't talk to the person next to you. Yeah. So, you know, some modern versions of churches you know, like like Hill song, I went to Hillsong and I couldn't really recognize church. It it was it might be something good.

I don't know. But it was basically sitting in a theater watching a show. And however good or bad that show may be, it wasn't a church. Yeah. Yeah.

So it didn't have that 1 another ring aspect, didn't it? Yeah. I was just thinking about the line in Hebrew is where it says, do not forsake meeting together as summer in the habit of doing. What what are some of the reasons in your both your experiences that people do give up on church. You know, why why might people decide to forsake the gathering of God's people to just leave and 1 day, you just don't see them again.

Any thoughts on that? I've I've Well, it's it's funny because I've got some friends I grew up with who who have done exactly that. They grow up in the church. They had a great time. They professed faith and now sort of in their mid twenties to late twenties have have sort of stopped going almost like a test to see what happened and then they find that they're okay.

That's how they put it. And they they actually funny enough, they look back at our teenage years and sort of see golden years. Because they were in great we had a great youth group, we had a lot of fun together. We were growing. And they have since left that church, gone to university, got married, moved to a different city or town, tried to find that same level of goldenness.

So the same, you know, they've got these treasured memories of being part of a family and and they can't get that immediately in these other churches, so they move to another church and move to another church. And eventually, just fizzle out because they don't have in their own words. It's not it's not doing what it used to do for them. Mhmm. Which is which was quite I mean, given everything we've talked about is a strange way of thinking about church.

But that that might be 1 reason why people leave because they aren't getting what they expect church to give them. I think that's back to that consumerism sort of idea, isn't it? Yeah. I think that's you know, where I don't know what RP is going to be in this a to z, but that's where the perseverance comes in. And sometimes people are just tested through time and so you get young people.

They they're at church. They think they love Christ, but they actually don't. They love the things that Christ brings -- Mhmm. -- and church is very, very wonderful, friendships, youth groups, all the things that you've just said. Then they find their girl there or their bloke there.

And they get married, and then they have kids. And they basically were looking for that, and and and and church was a sort of platform -- Mhmm. -- for what they wanted in their heart and not Christ. So a lot of it is the exposing of did people really want were they here for the very reason because they loved Christ? Yeah.

And if if they they say they were, then actually what's changed? Yes. Because you're not going to church anymore. Yep. But yet you're still claiming, you know, we talked about this earlier, people saying, yeah, I still I'm walking with Christ, but I don't really go to church anymore.

Yep. Church wasn't doing anymore. So now I'm doing, you know, I pray sometimes and I And you and you think what's what's changed? Why yeah. Why do's moved here.

Yeah. I suppose another reason is if you think about the culture we live in with, you know, social media, it it's very easy. In fact, you can do it instantly to just unfriend someone just unfollow someone, get them out of your life, remove any -- Legal WhatsApp group. -- leave a WhatsApp group. And That might be 1 of the reasons that people forsake meeting together because sometimes it's just hard doing life together in the church, isn't it?

And there might be people, like the Pebal illustration, there might be people who you just don't really gel with very much or who you've upset and it's quite hard to front up to them. And not only that, you gotta take your lords supper with them, you know. And And so for sort of ease of social life, we might just think I'm gonna unfollow and unfriend this church because actually there's a relational jarring when I meet. But that is so good for us, isn't it? That's what we're meant to do.

That's why that's why it's a family, and we're meant to work together. Mhmm. And we will offend each other because we're because because another definition of church, if you like, is a bunch of sinners coming together, isn't it? So there's no doubt that I'm going to offend you or be misunderstood or trade on your toe in some way emotionally. And that's where forgiveness and love and that's where growth happens.

Mhmm. You grow when you say, okay. I'm I I I accept your apology. I want to move forward with you. And that's a godly thing to do, isn't it?

It's to learn that forgiveness. It's it's the same with marriage, isn't it? And and it's definitely the same with church. I mean another way is people just they, you know, they turn It's a it's a more of a subtle 1, I guess or a slower 1, is where they they they they don't is it Satan? It's hard to hard to say really, but they don't want to hear what the word says.

And the world's word seems to be more comforting. And and then people will say things like oh, you need a break. Yes. This will freshen you up. You you know, And what that does is it turns serving into self serving how I'm always feeling, what I feel like, And then in the end, I won't go because I don't feel like going to church and it would do me good to have a break.

Mhmm. And that's a will again, a worldly after all these things are very worldly, aren't they, I guess? Yeah. Or it's some people think, well, I'm not I'm not I'm not feeling particularly close to God today, so I can't go to church. I need to I need to work I need to sort myself out before I can enter that building.

I'm feeling yeah. I'm struggling be really struggling with this sin. So I feel very dirty so I can't enter that building -- Yes. Yeah. -- which is again a misunderstanding of what the church is.

That is, isn't it? That's a really good 1 because that's just seeing it as a religious gathering where we go and pretend that, you know, everything's okay rather than seeing it as a hospital where we're gonna get nursed and ministered to by by Christ, you know? And sometimes, you know, as Christians we can come across as if, you know, maybe, as if we have nothing wrong with us. Yeah. And that's not right.

No. We are to share our burdens and we're to share the the things that we're tempted in in order to encourage each other to carry on. None of us are perfect. We all need Christ. We'll never grow outside of it.

Mhmm. And we just need we just need each other. It's is striking, isn't it? That really the way in which God is gonna keep us as individuals in the faith is the church. Is as others are gonna minister to us and encourage us.

That's how he's going to make sure we get to the end. Well, oh, gosh. I think it was a blast in. Said that you can't have God with your father if if the church is your mother. Now that's been abused, that's saying.

I understand that. You know, by particularly the Catholic church, that sort of thing. Salvation is through the church. Yep. But having said that, you know, that's a really very true thing.

Yeah. Okay. Good stuff there. Well, we're we're meandering around a bit today, which is fine, and not really working through in any order. But there's just so much to talk about and talk about here.

Maybe we should've touched on this at the beginning, but let's spend a few minutes thinking about the distinction between the the universal church and the local church. So there's a sense in which we belong to the church worldwide, but there's an expression of that where we are here. Any thoughts on on the difference between those 2 things and the relationship between the kinda big c church and small c church, if you like? Well, there is a that there is definitely a difference because the universal church as as it's, you know, described is is all those that are bought by the blood of Christ. From all areas of the world throughout the whole of history.

Mhmm. So, you know, you go to book of Revelation and you'll see the Church University But again, in the book of Revelation, it starts off with church local. Yes. And and, you know, the local church is the is the expression of the body of Christ. So it it doesn't go like, you know, emmanuel Church, whatever here.

Is an is an eye. Yes. And Saint Agatha's church here is a leg. Mhmm. And Cornerstone Church here is a nostril.

And that what we need to do is to is to be completely unified on this earth, and then we can work as a body. That I don't think that's right. And I I I the the local church is the is local body of Christ. And Christ speaks and he's there, present, and speaks for his word and so forth. Yeah.

So I guess that that sort of takes down the idea that it doesn't really matter whether you belong to a local church So I could go to 1, 1 week and other the other week because they're all the body. Yeah. So I don't really have to commit anywhere long term. I could just float around a bit as well. I think that deals with that issue.

Yeah. You you're you are at this local church. I mean, if If it's preaching the gospel and all the stuff that we've said, not just claiming to be a church. And you are to be looking in the body there, you are something even if you're a liver. Yeah.

There is a wonderful just sort of off the back of that. Even though we are to be part of a local expression a church. There is something wonderful isn't there, stepping into a church you've never been to and being amongst brothers and sisters. Yeah. It's just wonderful.

I've you know, even in it I I went to a church in Germany on 1 of my gap years, and they were singing a song that I knew, but in German. It was the it was the same it was the same tune. And I was just like out better, didn't it? It was our God is an awesome God. It was like, our God is done mehmede dear God or something.

It was it was good fun. But It was just like you just thought, wow, look, Christ is at work all over the all over the world. And 1 day -- Absolutely. -- in glory will be washed with these brothers and sisters together with me. But Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great stuff. I mean, link to this.

1 of the things that we often say to students who come here and are looking for a church, they might try, you know, lots and lots of different churches just just to find somewhere, you know, that they feel at home. And for a little while, that can be okay. But what what can sometimes happen is they, you know, try 3 or 4, don't really fit anywhere, go back to the first 1 they tried, then it's reading weeks. So there's a couple of weeks off. Before you know it, it's Christmas.

Then it can be January, February, before they've even I see. That's settled. That was my that was my that was my bonus though. Maybe this is where I got the illustration from you. And And what what we're trying to say to him is, look, you know, you're never gonna find an exact replica of your home church.

Okay? But the questions are, do do they preach the gospel? Do they love Jesus? Are they gonna love me and help me grow? If you can tick all of those, then then that's hope.

That's church, isn't it? And you can throw yourself in there. And even though stylistically, it might be very different, it still is the body of Christ, and you you can play a meaningful part in it. So let's let's finish by talking a bit about the the evangelistic power of the church. In what ways is the church like a sort of big flag for the gospel in Well, if it's running properly like we've just said, it's a family It is it's a great witness to the world, isn't it?

The the world is looking for community, you know, think of how many things are called community, the community, the something else community. Yeah. And people are looking for community. They talk about diversity, but often you know, often it isn't diversity. They're they're in a sort of group of people that are exactly the same as them and believe or, you know, sort of look the same.

And so church when it's running properly is quite diverse. It's diverse in age groups and international, you know, where it will reflect at least the local area and how international that is. And abilities and intellect and, you know, job wise. So it's an amazing community. Of loving and living and serving.

Yeah. I mean, I remember the thing that really struck me once I was doing a a a a talk at at a at a church. And I got there early as as this bloke was putting the tables out and it was I think it was for the youth or something like that. And this bloke was a high court judge and he had popped in just to lay tables out so that the kids could come and have a fish and chip supper and hear the gospel. This is fantastic.

This is church. This is This is this man who isn't saying, well, I'm a high court judge. I don't do that. Mhmm. He's saying, I do do this because I wanna serve the gospel, you know.

And I think sometimes we forget the power of that. So 1 of the things that we have in our church is that if if a family has had a new baby, you know, their home group and a few others will will cook meals for 2 weeks and deliver meals to their house. And once you've been around Cornerstone for a while, you you just sort of know that happen but when you talk to neighbors about that, they're blown away by it. I mean, I really, honestly, it is just like amazing that for 14 days, different people will be dropping food off to help you with your and, you know, I think that's part of what Jesus means, isn't it? When By this, all the world will know that you're my disciples, that you love 1 another.

And there is this sort of giving of self, which is just so powerful and -- It's very authentic, isn't it? And it's 1 of the only places where that kind of thing is genuine because If you go into Starbucks for example, they design it so it looks like a living room, and they smile at you when you go the counter and they ask for your name. So they write your name on the I used to work in Starbucks. So this was me at 1 point. You write their person's name and you call their name out.

And it's like, welcome back. Timmy, here you go, Timmy, here's your coffee. Go, you know, and all of it is fake because it's not a living room. It's not they don't actually know you. They don't care about it.

Probably false name. It's probably a fake name. It's just utter tripe, to be honest. But church, you come in, where will you get a better welcome than in churn. And and actually, to be honest, I genuinely think the coffee is better at our church.

Yeah. Starbucks. Sometimes. Yeah. Great stuff.

Okay. Well, let's let's draw it to a close there. Wonderful privilege to be part of the local church and I'm sure it's more we could say on it. But thank you for joining us today. Next week we are going to be looking at a better d and we're going to be talking about the devil.

So do join us next week for that and that's it. Well, we hope you enjoyed today's episode of Christianity a zed. If you would like, more content, you can go on to w w w dot cornerstonechurch kingston dot org and you can click on our resources or sermons page. You can also look at our social media channels to see when we're releasing new content. You can go on to YouTube.

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