Raising Boys

Welcome to a new series of podcasts. That Cornerstone Church are doing on bringing up boys. My name's Pete Woodcock. I'm a pastor at Cornerstone Church and with me is Dean and Chris Dryden. Dean introduced yourself, Dean.

Yep. Dean, I'm the family's worker at Cornerstone. Marita Chris, who's sitting over there. And I'm Chris, and I'm married to Dean. And we have 5 children.

So this topic is of interest to us. Yeah. Most of them are boys. Yeah. 5 children, 3 boys, 2 girls.

And so we're going to deal with this topic because because it's come up largely because of what's been sort of discovered going on in schools and the way boys have been treating girls sexually and so forth. So we want to be quite frank in these podcasts and we want to deal with real issues. It's often Boys are often sort of talked about as if they're the toxic ones and and to be honest, I do I do think boys are really quite put down. And so we don't want to just put boys down. We want to help families and parents to bring up boys in the in the way that will glorify really what they are and help them to deal with with girls in particular in this area of sexuality.

There was a very good article a few weeks ago in on in March in the times and it was called toxic boys, what parents need to know about bringing up boys. And there's some good wisdom in in that, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.

Yeah. I think it was it was loads of good practical advice. That's what struck me about it first first read really. Yeah. Yeah.

And some of that advice really is you know, it really is from Christianity, isn't it? Yeah. Yes. It's amazing. Yeah.

That's sort of the the the missing thing. The foundation this is all built on is a Christian world. Yeah. So when I read it, I thought, well this is sort of sort of all sort of quite obvious -- Yeah. -- really, that Yeah.

That's 1 of the things I thought. I thought, this is parenting. This is what parents should -- Yeah. -- are supposed to be doing -- Yeah. -- isn't it obvious?

But what they miss out is I think is God and the Scriptures, and and it takes it makes it even better, doesn't it? When you know the Scriptures. So anyway, the first point that they go to is helping young boys to develop empathy. And they give some good good advice on that, you know, that we we should try to help boys understand their emotions, understand other people's emotions that we should talk to them in a way that would teach them to have emotional literacy and so forth and be able to deal with that. Yeah.

Yeah. I I think, you know, 1 of the big practical things from this section was like talk to the boy talk to your boys. Don't just they they they will maybe need coaxing and they might be a little bit more quiet. But don't forget them. It's easier to talk to girls.

They're they're more they're designed more to talk faster. They are. But then if we think about parenting, from the beginning, from when they're born, we're helping them figure out their emotions, right? Babies cry. They can't tell us why they're crying, they don't know why they're crying.

We as parents, it's our job to figure out, what are they feeling? Are they hungry? Are they tired? Are they hurt? Are they upset?

So that starts from the very beginning and those kinds of things we're thinking without really even thinking about it. And so we just need to continue those conversations. It's not just we need to treat boys differently than girls. We actually treat them the same from the beginning. And then as they develop and as we get to know them, then we can start having more specific appropriate and individual conversations with them.

And it may not it may not necessarily make sense to you because you think this little this little 1 can hardly understand, you know, 4 letter words or or 5 letter words, you know, what what about emotional literacy? Obviously, you don't use that kind of language with them, but you help them to to sort of you you name their emotions. Know, that's what that's what the article's saying. It's helped them to connect their emotions with with what just happened. Yeah.

Just to yeah. Absolutely. Let's go back to of Chris because I think that's really helpful because what you said because I think, you know, sometimes people say, well, what are you feeling? I've no idea what I'm feeling. And I don't know whether that's just a blokey thing.

Well, I mean, you can talk about when when men are grumpy -- Yeah. -- right? Quite often. Men are grumpy because they're actually hungry. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. So if you go shopping -- Yeah. -- with your wife, but you haven't eaten, you're going to get grumpy very, very fast, and they call it hangry, don't they? But kids experience that as well, and they need parents to help guide them through those feelings.

And you say, actually, you're in a really bad mood because you need to go to sleep. You know? That's what you need, and they'll fight you on it. But as a parent, it's our job to help them think through those and to think through. Why is my child behaving this way?

Why are they feeling this way? How can I help them handle these emotions that they're feeling? So what I like about what you're saying is that So it seems from this article, you could almost get the idea that they have they've got to go internally to discover their own sort of feelings. But what you're saying is that there is actually what real need for an external understanding of, you know, I can't really understand myself, but someone else can actually see me and understand me often better than I can understand. Absolutely.

And you get that in the script don't you? Absolutely. So so, you know, if you take sort of proverbs -- Yeah. -- you that that that whole thing is there is a father teaching his son he's walking through life, and he's walking through everyday events that the sun is going to see. And and actually He's talking them through.

Yeah. Yeah. And and like you know, there's a big burden on helping boys to know how to treat women -- Yeah. -- the right way. And proverbs 1, you know, it it says, listen to your father and don't neglect your mother's teaching.

So even the the writer of the proverbs is saying, look, sons. Treat your mums well. Like, you know, listen to me and listen to your mom. Yeah. Brilliant.

You know, it's it's it's like a there's there's there's there's there's equality for you, you know. Yeah. And and what would you say about just sort of not because I think to take a boy and say, alright, son. We're going to talk now about this emotion. I know I would respond very badly to that.

But just what about just to sort of just the the normal conversation where all kinds of emotional talk go on. You know, in other words, that just sitting around the dinner table pretty good, isn't it? Absolutely. You're sitting around the dinner table, talking about how your day went, you know, quite often, kids will say, had a really horrible day or this is the worst day ever because of this. And then you can talk them through, well, what was going on there?

And you can also help them deal with their feeling and how they responded to the way that they felt and whether that was right or wrong. That that's quite helpful. And it's just You don't even think about the teaching and the learning and the modeling that's taking place when you're when you're having those conversations. I think with boys, especially is sometimes sometimes as a parent, yeah, you do have to call it out and you have to deal with it. They're, you know, you can't let certain behaviors carry on, but also you have to wait for the time when they're ready to talk about it.

And you know, be Even if it's the most annoying time for you as a parent, you need to take that time and either say, I really like to talk to you about this now, but we've got to do this or it's time for bed and it's really late, and let's talk about it. At another time, but then you have to be intentional about going back to that conversation and having it. But these things happen all day long throughout the day. If if we're ready and listening as parents, I think we have to be ready. I think quite often we're so distracted by 7 things that So so so so so you're saying, you know, it's knowing our kids and there there are times where just to try to talk to them about something, it's just not going to work.

Exactly. Because they're they're taking up in the heat of the moment taken up with that emotion. They can't figure it. It's a bit like your wife when you're driving, telling you to calm down, isn't it? Yeah.

It's just not it doesn't sort of, you know, just That never happens to me. And I mean, let's face it. As adults, how many of us like to sit down and calmly talk through things when we're all works up about some We need to sort of blow off steam. We need to do something to then be able to come back and have a conversation and we shouldn't expect anything more of our children if we can't do that as adults. But I think I think also, like, taking taking their age into account as well is is is you don't have to bit have massive long discussions and essays.

You know? So for instance, if you go back go back to the kitchen kitchen table around the dinner table, if you start saying, let's talk about your day, how how are you feeling, they're gonna, you know, they're gonna respond maybe negative to that. But if you set it up like we're gonna do good news, bad news. How you know, what was good about your day? What was bad about your day, you know?

Yep. Get the good news up at first and then that opens up the sort of channels for for talking and and that that's when it kind of flows. But also, when something does blow up, you know, you you have to yeah. You do have to choose your moments. But if you let's say you use the naughty step or the, you know, time out time out time out chair or whatever, you go over to them and, you know, name the name the emotion.

You you know, you responded like you were really angry then, you know? And it it seems to be because your, you know, your brother took the toy or, you know, like whatever, you know, name the name the emotion, connect it to the the action that just happened. And but but that's what that's what the article is saying. But we we have a deeper thing to go to as well, and that is to to know your heart, you know, these aren't just these aren't just emotions. These are these are from the heart, you know.

These these are this is is it goes it it's the deeper part of you. And so so what's going on there? You know, and and you have to teach your there's an opportunity to talk to your young ones about about their hearts and start that early as well. Again, you might get totally puzzled looks. But if you start, you know, if you start early, they will they will they will learn the kind of Because the point is, learn the language.

Not just being able to identify their emotions. Right? We don't want children. We don't want humans to be able to just well, I was feeling angry, or I was feeling upset. This person hurt me.

That's great. You can identify that emotion, but what are you going to do with that? How are you going to respond? And that what we need to be doing is talking to the heart of the matter. Yes, you might be feeling that way.

But let's talk through what a right response is. Or and or if they responded wrongly, talk through that response and why it was wrong. Because it's great to have empathy and to be able to identify emotions. But if that's all you can do -- Yes. -- you're stuck.

Yes. You're headed for disaster. Yeah. And so I mean, the bible does help us here a lot because because it's not it's not just as you say, identifying an emotion. It's saying is that emotion right and wrong?

Right. So there is a right and wrong here, isn't there? Yeah. So there's it's emotional literacy, but also like moral literacy as well. That's that's huge.

And that's where, you know, the whole idea of God teaching us -- Yep. -- the fact that God tells us you know, what is right and wrong. There's a bigger, you know, as you were saying, you need you need to to read your your boy, and to help him to understand his emotion, and you you are outside reading him. But we've got God, haven't we? In the scriptures -- Yeah.

-- that is showing us And and and and there is also confession, isn't there? And admitting that we're failures, and admitting that we actually need God's help in this. That's why around the table and even praying and talking about God is a terrific thing, isn't it? Yep. Yeah.

Just to go back to around the table and sorry if you want to come up for that. It's not just talking about their emotions, is it around the table? Because where they're going to pick up is is your day, isn't it? Yeah. And they they have to learn to take their turn as well.

And so they're gonna hear mom, you know, is is saying, I've I had a terrible day or I didn't know how to deal with this this thing at work, you know, not necessarily gonna tell all the details. But you say, I I was I was really upset by this local. Or this, you know, person at work or something. And and they're watching mom and dad talking about emotions and saying, you know, to be honest, I was really angry at them. I didn't know what to do.

And and watching, you know, how I love this person, how I forgive this person, how I how I respond to God's laws in my life. Mhmm. Yeah. It's really good. We and and having people over as well and having those kinds of conversations is quite helpful.

I remember an example we had some friends over, and we did this go around the table, good news, bad news. And 1 of our adult friends said, I needed to do something today, and I really didn't want to. But I knew that's what God wanted me to do. And sometimes following God, is really hard. And what a testimony that was for our kids?

And our and 1 of our kids said, you're right. It is hard sometimes. And, you know, it was great because there, they saw an adult saying, I struggle with this. Yeah. But I'm glad I did it because I was blessed in the end and they can then take that on board and it's it's helpful for them to see the adults talking about these things.

And realizing that they're not alone with these difficulties. Yeah. Jumping ahead in in the article to a later section, it does bring in the fact that you know, it's part of your fam it it it says family culture. And I think that's a great word and and and a great sort thing to think about is what is the culture of your family? If you're a Christian family, then part of the culture of your family is gonna be the bible and, you know, worshiping god together and talking about, you know, Jesus together and he's gonna be he's gonna be part of your life -- Yeah.

-- and part of all of your discussions. And So that's why we do have that higher standards to sort of appeal to, you know, when it comes to teaching kids right and wrong and and and and like you say, what do you do with your with your emotions that stir you up, you know? What is the right response? How do I treat girls? Now what's what's the right way?

You know, if if a girl might have been really horrible to you and, you know, and how do you respond? You know, you don't you don't raise your fists. You don't you know, 1 you do not hit girls, you know? It's 1 very strong You're gonna hit close, though. Yeah.

Well, you can do I think I think you can defend yourself. Yeah. Yeah. You know? I think even with you know, you can so I teach the boys, look, you can defend yourself.

Okay? Yep. It's when you start going back. Yeah. That's when it starts to get blurry, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. So Let's go on the girl sing then. So so because the whole idea is obviously to have empathy and we're particularly thinking about towards girls. Where do we where do we begin?

I mean, do we show boys and girls a different? Definitely. Yeah. I mean, I think that's that's an easy 1 because it's so plainly obvious. You know, especially if you have a sister.

Yeah. There's gonna be there's gonna be bath times. There's gonna be times when, you know, when, you know, clothes are off and and stuff is happening. And so you so you mean that you would you would say you don't burst in on your system? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Not not, you know, not before you go into her room. You know, we we had kids that were actually sharing a room and, you know, it was boys, Aliyah was sharing with her her brothers at some point, but there comes a time when -- She's too old to have her in space, you know.

But, yeah, just just even just helping the boys to know they are different to start with. You know, I don't think you have to get out sort of diagrams and stuff, you know, but if if you're if you're a boy, if if if you have a little boy and let's say you you're having another baby, there's a great opportunity to to sort of talk about the differences. You could we could have a sister. Why is mommy's belly getting big? You know?

Why is you're not belly getting big? Well, my Maybe your belly is. My belly is is getting big but it's for a different reason, you know? Because that's food. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. You know, I've got to help Remember empathy. I have to help out the cravens, you know. But but all those and and I think the the bible it it talks about this in in inuteronomy.

In in in a different way. It's talking about teaching your children the law of God, you know. But it says when you sit down and when you rise up, when you walk along the road, I just think we have opportunities all day and and all around us to just throw in a little comment, you know, or a little the little line. If we know it's our job to nurture and raise our boys in the fear and and and the knowledge of of the lord, then then we need to have our wits about us for opportunities. Yes.

You know, I I think that's a I think that's absolutely right. So so 1 of the things I would do is is and I think we've gotta watch you know, telly and the programs they're watching if it's if it's telly or whatever is in Netflix or something. I do think we do have to sit and watch them. Unfortunately, sometimes because they may be boring for us. And we're commenting on them.

Yeah. And particularly sort of advert. Yep. So and now, of course, they're not watching TV so much. They're watching stuff on their phones -- Yeah.

-- YouTube. But there are adverts put in. Yeah. So we want to see those adverts somehow and that's where you comment. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, so we would I would all and I would use humor massively, with with my kids to say, what what do you mean because she's worth it? You know, or, you know, you would comment on Look at that bloke. Why is he doing that? Or and it it it would just sort of show up some of the trends and the things that are being promoted in in the advertising.

I think another big 1 is so, like, we I used to drive Aliyah to to school, you know, or yeah. It would normally when we were driving somewhere. Oh, no. It's Abigail. It was it was a long time ago.

And and there would be like a tiny tempo song on. And he would be talking about, you know, walking the girl home from the club and stuff like that. And it you know, and you think, well, why you why you're playing music for, you know, that kind of music. But but kids are gonna hear that kind of music. Right?

And I would say, hold on a minute. No. You're not. You you know, you're not gonna think, you know, I would I would speak to the the the the singer. If he says something about my daughter, I was like, wait.

Hold on. Wait, mate. Yeah. Exactly. Don't you don don't think I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna, you know, not see that, mate.

Right? So so there's an example. You just you're always speaking to the culture. You know, whatever's happening, if it's a film or music or whatever -- Yeah. -- you're speaking back to it and your kids are here and you do it.

Yeah. And they they just learn they pick that up and it becomes part of their their life as well. Yep. So know their world is a very very important thing. Exactly.

And I think instead of quite often we wanna run from it, but I think speaking into it, it teaches them as well. How to combat these thoughts, how to combat the things that are going on in their lives, instead of just shutting it down and not dealing with it. That I think was was probably my initial approach as a parent was let's not listen to that. Let's not look at that. But actually, that does them no good, because you're not teaching them how to deal with the world around them.

And that's what we have to do. Whether we like it or not, whether we you know, whether we happen want to sit through that boring TV show that they watch, it's something that we should do to help them and to educate them and to give them the tools that they need to be able to combat all the things that are coming at them from everywhere. And sometimes I know it's age appropriate. I totally get that, but sometimes Christians are just too scared of the world. And and be and then we isolate ourselves too much, and therefore we're not speaking to the world.

Yeah. So in Proverbs, the father is taking the son, obviously, age appropriate, to down the road, He shows the violence. He says, look, if you if you let me take you to these these mates, they're violent, you'll be destroyed. Let me take you to the end of the road where the prostitute is. Because because if you go down that road, she'll kill you.

And so he's not hiding in some sort of false, holy religious world and pretending that these boys won't actually come up to that road. He's taking them to the road. He assumes they're gonna get enticed. Yeah. And he's he assumes that it's gonna be very very attractive.

Yeah. You know? Yes. And that's that's that's that's the big things. It's violence, you know, sex and violence, you know, that's And it's hard.

It is hard. As mom, my initial reaction is, no, don't take my child. No. Yes. You know?

Keep them back. But then I also think about, hold on a second. The God I believe in is the, you know -- Yes. -- is overseeing all of this, is in control of all of this. And he, you know, I can trust him with this and it's it is hard and we may not get it perfect we're not gonna get it perfect.

We may not get it right all the time. But God is sovereign and God will help us work through those situations and we really need to trust God on this. Because it will, you know, taking your children into hard places means that you're doing it in a safe way as well, because you're there to talk them through these things, to deal with them. And it's not their buddies on the playground talking them through who gets to them first. Yeah.

Yeah. You know? I mean, that's the thing. Yeah. And if you live in a tele tubby land, all the time, they're never gonna be able to cope with life, are they?

Exactly. And this this is a this is a a a tough thing for a Christian pam for for any parents to think about because you know, lots of the time is we're just sort of in survival mode. We're thinking about -- Yeah. -- what, like, getting dinner made, you know, with with just thinking about bedtime or whatever, you know. Yeah.

And and and it's so it's so tempting to just say stop it when you see them doing something. And and again, this is another thing that the article picks up on, you know, but if you're always just saying stop it -- Yep. -- then then, like, you know, try harder, I think, or there is a time for stop it. I'm gonna say sometimes it is Now you're talking to your sister. Stop talking to your sister like 9 times out of 10.

I honestly will say, stop it. 9 times out of 10. But the the that 1 time out of 10 is so important. Yes. And that's somewhere to start.

You know. And if it's surrounded if you're surrounded by what we're saying, where you're discussing all kinds of things -- Yeah. -- and in the all kinds of you're obviously stuck -- Yeah. -- discussing emotions and empathy and so Yeah. Let me just so because, you know, I just want to sort of come to the the bit.

What what what when what about a boy then learning? So we we know the we're teaching we've been already teaching that the boy and the girl is different. What about the empathy with the girl like periods and, you know, and and and the girl's body changing so rapidly. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, how do we help boys? I mean, that's that's something that's gonna come up around probably age 9 or 10. Like, year 6, that's when I had that conversation with with Levi, you know, with Sometimes for girls, it can be before then. Yeah. Yeah.

But n I'm sorry. I'm talking about how boys will start. To notice because the girls most girls develop before boys. So I would say, 9 or 10, which is year 5 -- Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. -- years I mean, I I I used I've used, like, resources from a organization called LoveWise about that. And they have got a great book about you know, boys and girls, and they're different books. They're, you know, 1 for the boys, 1 for the girls. But in the boys book, it will say your body's changing massively.

Yeah. But guess what, girls' bodies are changing as well. Right. And and this is what's happening in in the girls. And that's that's for them to deal with, you know, and here's here's what's changing in your body and here's how you need to do that, like shower more you know.

Yeah. But they will but but again like most decent Christian literature that talks about this kind of stuff will you know, and and rightly tell your boys how the girls are changing and, you know, how to be patient with that or how to not you know, don't bring it up. Don't don't let's let's don't don't make a big joke out of it. It's it's a it's a serious thing. You would like People joking about your smelly armpits, you know, don't make you know, don't it's a private and personal thing, and it's something that's quite you know, it's quite confusing.

So just be careful about how you can pay treat girls like that. What what what about then? So so I you know, I I know, you know, you probably want to talk more generally. But when when when girls are, you know, having their first period and and, you know, some some girls have, you know, massive emotional -- Yep. -- issues.

How how how would you teach your boys about that? Well, Again, it's age appropriate, right? 1, I think there's a lot of work to do with the girls, first of all, because initially, yeah, it's a surprise. It's a shock to the system. But 1 of the things I think is important is to teach your girls Don't be taken off guard.

Don't be surprised by this. It's gonna happen every month. That doesn't mean you can let your emotions run free during that time. You need to keep yourself in check as well. But also with boys, I think as they, if they're learning about this, if they know about it.

Again, it's it's to say, and not to say, oh, it's okay because she's having her period. She can behave this way, no, and make that obvious for everyone there. You don't, you know, you don't get a get out of jail free card because this is happening to you. Your responsibility is to deal with your emotions. And for boys to take in, you know, take it in their stride to think about it, to maybe have a bit more patience with them, to talk it through them, but I think it is as things come up, you just you deal with it just like any other emotion, you know, be sensitive, she's feeling a little bit more sensitive, So maybe we should back off a little bit, give her some space.

You know, she may not be as friendly to you this week as she was, 2 weeks ago, but she's dealing with that. And we're gonna help her deal with that, but you need to also help her deal with that. And this is how you can do it by giving her some space. I think most boys, you know, in in my experience, most boys at 11, are still not interested in girls in that what in that in in a way that they will be deeply hurt if they get grumped at. They were just that was like, that's how girls You know?

Yeah. That's how a girl's name. They don't like girls. Yeah. That's right.

So so I think it's quite a good is it I think it's a a great design feature that that boys don't start getting interested in girls to, you know, to sort of 14 and above. That by then, they they used to, you know, all the all the emotions that that girls can have. But again, it's it's from from the earliest age, you know, your your your if you've got all boys in your house, your the mum is the is the is the girl is the girl, and your and the mum is is sort of like the guinea pig in a way. Like, you have to, you you know, you have to treat your mom with respect and with kindness and -- Yes. Don't talk back to her and help her.

Yeah. So so would you so let let let's say you only had boys. Would you would you actually do that book, girls are different? Definitely. Yeah.

You could. But but I think Because they need to know about their friends, they need to know about other, you know, women. They can't go along life, you know, along through life thinking, well, I only know about me. I don't know anything about what happens a woman. I think, you know, that that is where we were creating this deep dark mystery that they're gonna want to find out and they will find out.

So again, it's best that you as the parent take control of that and you tell them the information that they need to know. There's a there's a sentence. I don't know whether we're coming towards the end at this is like a this is now a nasty sentence to throw in, where where a a lot of people would hate today. But it talks it where Paul is talking writing to Timothy. He talks about women being the weaker sex.

Now he clearly let's just get this clear. He's not talking about intellectually or or putting them down. Yeah. The point of that is They haven't got less dignity in God's eyes. No.

So How would you teach that to your boys? You know, is it is it back to the old fashioned opening doors for them? You know, And what is wrong with teaching them that? Yeah. I I I think that's I think I I definitely teach my boys to to be chivalrous.

Let the girls go first. Yeah. But need to be the protector and the provider. Yeah. Whenever Dean goes out of the house and there's, you know, 1 boy at home at least.

Whoever that oldest boy is, they are have been told, maybe not every time, but quite often it's Right? Look after your family. Take care of your mom. Yeah. You need to help mom.

I'm not here. So you need to do it. Normally, when I'm like, away for a day job like your man of the house here. Or if it's gonna be a busy day and I've got lots to get done. And they're given that role of protector provider.

And and they love it. They think it's great. Do I feel like, you know, this weakling of a mother that my 11 year old boy has been told to protect me? No. I think.

Fantastic. Here, let me give you a job to do. Okay. And he's You'll prove it to me. It doesn't that that what you've just said there doesn't mean to say that you're suddenly become a belittles little thing that just allows your 11 year old boy to dictate over you.

Because you're the 1 who's saying I'll give you a job. Yeah. I'll give you a job. Yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. And I think the more you do that and the more you say, you know, this is a a man's job or I want you to protect your mom or look after your sisters or look after your siblings or whatever. They take that on board, and I think all of our kids, even the youngest who is a boy feels that protector role over his sisters. Right? If they're out at a park and they he feels that 1 of them might be threatened, he'll go he'll do something about it or at least talk about doing something about it, you know.

I think it's And that is why as a I'm sorry. Just to because yeah. We are, we should wrap up. Yeah. But that is why if your boy I I guess, I'm guessing, that 1 of the biggest sort of sins if you like in in family life is for boys to talk down or have a go at their moms.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, there there there have been times where I've I've said you know, you don't talk to your mom like that. There have been times where I say, you do not raise your hands to your mom because it you know, because like things get heated sometimes. Yeah.

And, you know, when you're trying to tell a boy off and and you're you're you're a woman, sometimes, like, they won't take it. And you know, you have to back your your wife up, you know, you have to say, look, don't you don't you dare. And again, that's that's a learning. You have to remember they're learning, you know. And and, yeah, they've they've got to so so again, whoever they're whoever they get angry with, you use your words.

K. Use your words to express your emotions. You don't lift your hands. That's gonna be the temptation, but that's always the easiest way. Right?

Use your words to to express how you feel. Don't, you know But but even modify them. Yeah. And when it comes to mom, you don't talk to unreal. Right.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and that's laying down the foundations of empathy and care and Going back to the so the whole week of sex thing a little bit.

What why are we surprised well okay. It's horrendous that that women are being abused, right? By by anyone, by by men, But if if if we live in a culture where we're saying there's there there is no such thing as the weaker sex, why are we surprised when men beat up women? Yeah. Because if they're not, you know Yeah.

It's it's it's a madness to sort of -- A madness to to wash away that -- -- to to level -- to truth. The difference. It's not belittling. Yeah. No.

It's not. At all. And that's the whole point. Yeah. Don't you belittle your mother.

Don't you belittle a wife. Don't you belittle the time of months that they're going through. Don't you you know, this is this is us taking the lead in empathizing. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you very much. I'm sure there's lots to more to talk about there. And I hope that you've enjoyed this podcast.

We will be in the next podcast dealing with pornography particularly, so tune in for for that. I hope you enjoyed that episode of raising boys and as as ever, if you go on to our website Cornerstone Church Kings dot org, then there's plenty more resources that you can download. And if you go to our YouTube channel of social media channels, you can subscribe and follow those as well so you can keep up to date with all the content that we're we're producing.